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Post by doublechevron on May 21, 2015 15:02:33 GMT 10
Oh yeah ... I found this interesting. Last night I shoved that window back in with 3 screws... just to make sure mice/rats wouldn't get in through the big hole.  The idea of the white mastic sealer is it's supposed to stay moist and never dry (so it'll stay sealed as the caravan moves and twists slightly as it drives down the road). Now I couldn't pry that mastic off the wood with my fingers, or gently wit a screwdriver (being rough with the screwdriver would splinter the wood). I found if I gave the mastic a good solid whack iwth a hammer it would shatter like ice  .... I could them brush it away with my fingers. You really are wasting your time pumping silicon around the window edges when this is what is under the window frame! |
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Post by doublechevron on May 20, 2015 22:24:33 GMT 10
Thanks Guys,
I reckon everyone must just turn a blind eye to it ... paint the water staining inside, and glue the truline seals and windows back in iwth silicon if a lot of the screw won't take into the rotten wood. Then sell it as "fully renovated". It sure is an eye opener 'cos this is one of the better old caravans I've ever looked at (lack of water staining, smells and feels dry etc...). Most importantly it's not painted to hide all the evidence of leakage!
seeya,
Shane l.
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Post by doublechevron on May 20, 2015 19:24:12 GMT 10
Are you really concerned about a little bit extra weight when you have a "little" 7 litre V8 in the tow car   Possibly no, but I can see 25+ litres to the 100km coming up EASILY  Mustard the Mustang is on restricted rego, I doubt I can tow unless I pay the full $1000.00 rego fee? With restricted rego in Qld you cannot use the car for "transport", ie, you can't park the car & go get a coffee, it can only be driven in a 15km radius or a bona-fide club event. (In tassy you can drive 200 days in the year if you maintain a log book....this bl**dy nanny state of Qld  So I will check with the insurer's. Come down to Victorai ..... It's worth living here just to access our club permit scheme. I had six vehicles on it for a bit (till my wife cracked 'em). For $70 bucks a year you can drive them anywhere, anytime you please ... tow anything for 45days a year (or double that for 90days). I can't emphasize how brilliant the scheme is as it allows you to actually drive your cars (most of mine are old citroens). seeya, Shane l. PS: 25L/100kms.... That's nothing, I reckon my crappy old v8 range rover will easily drink 30-35L/100kg (lpg) towing. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 20, 2015 19:08:18 GMT 10
Are you really concerned about a little bit extra weight when you have a "little" 7 litre V8 in the tow car |
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Post by doublechevron on May 20, 2015 18:43:37 GMT 10
I don't get what people think they'll achieve squirting silicon on leaky stuff..... Never, ever work. You need to pull the parts off, clean and refit. I think this is the worst window on the caravan... and I was quite concerned. WWWAaaayyy better than I was expecting. 95% of it is "as new".... I'll need to replace the bottom corner though.  That black area will disintegrate to the touch. So I'll replace that corner.... easy job, just release the cladding so you have access.  The old mastic is a joke.... it's like brittle old cement. It wouldn't seal anything. Either woudl the bit of silicone smeared over the top edge. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 20, 2015 13:30:24 GMT 10
OK, under the bunk in the back corner:   if i climb in there with a light ... you can see the moisture staining.... Invisible under torch light.  I was hoping to simply release the back wall as it's only held on with staples along the bottom (that way I could push the slight dent out from behind too)....................... Yeah right! Those bastard little stapples, you can only get them out easily if the wood is rotten behind them.... and it's not. There is probably 50staples across the bottom of that wall. I tried to remove 3 of them, and damaged the cladding around the staples on all three and couldn't extract them...... So I approached it from the side wall. I unscrewd the cladding where I could, and had to remove the annex wall rail from the side of the 'van.  the frame all looks brand new and unmarked except for the one 30cm length at the bottom edge. It's not structural and does nothing other than give the Jmould something to screw too. It's just dissolves to the touch. I'll measure it up and get some treated pine from bunnings in the same size to replace it. I'm guess glueing the replacement wood in is the best fix ?  Ok, front corner, inside the fold up bed cupboard. There is minor, but obvious water staining.  Wow this is an amazing setup this caravan. Look what I found under the head of the mattress. Another huge storage box that gets me right down into the front corner of the caravan.  it looks dirty and slightly damp, but not "rotten/moisture stained".  same trick as the back, remove annex rails and wall cladding screws.  You can see the frame away from the edge is perfect.  The one edge frame bit is once again .... rotten as buggery. If they'd used the silicon down the walls as well as the roof, this would all be perfect still  It could be worse, at least this is readily accessible for an almost cost free repair (a few short bits of wood will cost nothing).  Check this out ... not only did it wear it's original unworn tires ... the instructions are still there for the annex, and the annex feels brand new and has a slightly oily/cardboard feel to it. It's obviously been used maybe once in 30years.  wood rot aside around the window frames (which I have decided I will find ... sigh ....) this is the issue with the windows. The rubber seals have shrunk with age and no longer fit .... and will certainly leak.  Has anyone resealed the sliding windows on there caravans ? seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 19, 2015 23:14:14 GMT 10
WOW, You do wonder about these "moderns" using wooden frames, surley history will repeat itself. that's funny .... If you think this "modern" 30year old caravan is bad .... don't look at the poorly built new stuff: caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12286I'll post some photos of the rot tomorrow. The windows sure do have me concerned. I looked under the all before I purchased it and they all looked very good. I'm obviously crap at checking caravans though 'cos if I'd pulled the curtains back that cover the very edge of the windows, they all have at least small traces of water damage. Given the experience with the Jmoulds, this guarantees rotten frames under them. This is why I would NEVER buy a caravan that's painted internally. The frame is still very rotten underneath the painted ply (that now hides all the water stains). This is one of the better older caravans I've ever looked in .... very original, unbattered, not smelly, no obvious wate damage... If this one needs frame repair, imagine how bad the average stinky, mouldy smelling heavily water stained caravan is (even if it is "painted" so renovated  ) |
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Post by doublechevron on May 19, 2015 13:59:12 GMT 10
Oh yeah ... what timber do you guys use for frame repair ? I don't know how I'll fix under the few windows that have staining under them in the past if they have rotted anything like the back corner!
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Post by doublechevron on May 19, 2015 13:49:53 GMT 10
 I think I'll be able to just get another piece of aluminium cut and fitted for this.  This is what happened to the 4seasons hatch. I'm hoping I can just clip it back together. Hopefully they just pop apart. I'll find out when I remove them I guess.  The roof is remarkably clean for a 30year old caravan. The gas compliance plate says "86". So it's build date is early '86 or late '85. Note: the silicon. The white looking stuff on the J mould is concrete like mastic. Look at the nice big crown in the roof to "encourage" the water to drain off and not pool up there.  I find this interesting. The front of the caravan "J" mould.... Note: the silicon on the roof. They used mastic on the visible front/rear Jmould wall. That has obviously turned to concrete and started leaking decades ago. Note: someone has done the "push silicon in to seal it" with there finger along the edges. This won't work due to all the dirt wicked under there.  The roof was "siliconed" from new. Note: no traces of previous "cleaning" for resealing, no traces of mastic. These J moulds have never been off since manufacture (this is after chiseling off the mastic that overlapped all the silicon on the annex rail). So windsor was using silicon in the mid 80's to seal the roofs of there caravans.   Even back in the mid '80s they did an absolutely shithouse job with the Jmould seals. See all the spots completely missed! they used about 5% of the silicon they need to seal them. What saved the thing was when they troweled the silicon down the roof seems, they also troweled it down the sides of the Jmoulds.  like this. the rock hard mastic is from where I've unscrewed the annex rail (the annex manufacturer has fitted the rail over the top of the silicon sealed Truline/J moulds but used mastic (yeah that'll work over silicon LOL ). NOTE: THIS 30year old silicon is 100% perfect. No deterioration or delamination has been found. The roof seems are all still perfect looking too. So all the people that say "don't use silicon, it doesn't last" ..... it does... so long as the underlying metal is clean and scuffed. All of this had to be cut off with a knife. I HAVE found damage to the frame down at the bottom edge of the Jmould (right at the very bottom) where the mastic sealed walls have leaked. I'm going to have to try and release the cladding from the end wall to replace 30cm pieces of frame the Jmoulds screw too front and back. I did find a small amount of water staining int he front corner when I checked the caravan over.... but it's quite horrifying how a tiny water stain == completely rotten framing behind it. Wow wooden frame caravans are a stupid idea. the frame has soaked up the water and disintegrated like toilet paper. The rotten frame at the back .... I did use a torch in the storage area and cupboards to check for leakage/staining before I bought it and oculdn't find any here.... I've just checked again... There is the barely faintest trace of water mark on the plywood under the bunk ..... but completely rotten frame behind it. So even the tiniest, slightest of water staining in a wooden frame 'van == ROTTEN FRAME. I'm concerned about the few windows I found water staining under now .... I could leave this unrepaired as the only reason the bit of frame exist is so the "J" mould has something to screw too... but I won't, I'll replace. Once this caravan is resealed properly, it'll never leak again in my lifetime given the quality of the 30year old silicon on it's roof. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 14, 2015 13:54:49 GMT 10
Mick, next time you're around my place I'll show you how to reveal the van, as I've started on mine. Not difficult as Shane said, but quite an undertaking. Goo thing is that you can do a bit at a time as I am doing. Yeah I didn't say it was difficult ... It is a BIG job  The 'van arrived here yesterday, looks, smells and seems dry inside. Feeling around iwth my hand I've found dampness around one of the 4seasons hatches and several of the windows... if I'd left it outside all winter I'd have a a rotten frame and lots of plywood to replace She'll be fine though.... Just lots and lots of hours of scraping off old sealing and replacing it I still reckon his Mick's van will leak like a sieve as soon as he moves it. The old concrete like mastic will develop millions of fine little cracks as soon as it's wheel roll down the road and the 'van twists and flexes slightly It would be a real shame to let that incredible caravan interior get damaged! Do know anyone that has an old hay shed or carport you can stash it under ? seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 14, 2015 10:23:35 GMT 10
Oh yeah ... I'm itching to get out there and start pulling it to bits .... There's so much other stuff I need to do first. And I want to make sure it's all dry before I start. Fingers crossed there's no wood rot in the frame ( I'm not expecting there to be any there). I might buy in some clay bars and clean the paint before I start. I reckon it'll come up like new. It's amazingly straight for a 29year old caravan (it has a build plate on it ... '86).
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Post by doublechevron on May 13, 2015 22:43:50 GMT 10
Well it arrived in good shape. The caravan place has fitted the new wheels.... for some reason they insisted they had to do a "safety check" on it ( I don't know what that involves in Victoria).
They have fitted a new wiring plug, new tail lights, new gas bottle, new gas regulator.... I imagine they had to check nothing leaked and everything worked.
As expected after all this rain, although it looks and smells dry inside I can feel dampness around one of the 4seasons hatches and several of the windows. It's all tucked up safely in the shed now ... I'll let it dry for a few weeks before I reseal any of the windows that have dampness in them.
It has sliding windows, so I hope they can't leak from the windows themselves (the seals look old and hard). it must have copped some serious winds coming up to ballarat. I'm glad it was behind a heavy truck. The front window cover had blown out as has one of the 4 seasons hatches!
The more I go over it the more pleased I am with it. What a bloody ripper. I reckon I'd easily get 70% more for it than I paid after it's all sealed up and cleaned.... this one however, isn't for sale. not for many years.
seeya,
Shane L.
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Post by doublechevron on May 11, 2015 10:36:02 GMT 10
No. Guess I'll have to tarp it. What is involved i doing these seals? Wow... not a single response to your question. Realing is easy ... but a MASSIVE task. You need to remove all the J moulds, the windows, the 4seasons hatches..... here's where I did my 'van : ditzygypsy.proboards.com/thread/2647/old-chesneysadly that's for sale ... as I've bought another ... and am in the same situation as you.... it still wears the original tires and has obviously sat for 20+ years without moving in a farm shed  You can see where it's leaking in several places since it was moved 4years ago. The caravan place is supposed to be delivering it this week (they have already patched two leaks for me in the 3weeks it's taken to get it ready for them to deliver). The thing will leak from EVERYWHERE if I left it out all winter. all the old clay based mastic will be like concrette and will have cracked all over the place once the thing was towed after sitting for 20+ years. I've spent the last two weeks busily butchering one of the crappy old sheds in my yard to make it 4meters longer ... so it'll fit in while I re-seal it over winter this year. If I left it out for a full winter it would no doubt be rotten as buggery in a lot of places. At the moment it has two mostly hidden places of water staining. I hope it hasn't got worse in the 3weeks it's sat since I purchased it ('cos it's sitting outside and we have had a LOT of rain). seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 8, 2015 15:29:05 GMT 10
Distance from stud outer edge to stud outer edge, 7.33cm. Distance from stud inner edge to stud inner edge, 5.36cm. This gives an average (or centre to centre) of 6.345cm Well, that's proof enough for me. Spot on Shane, Holden HT HG HK. Now to ebay the rims. I'd say that's why it hasn't leaked ... it's never been moved, so the rock hard old clay like mastic hasn't cracked.... I reckon as soon as you tow it down the road it'll leak like a sieve... Do you have a shed to store it in until you can re-do all the seals ? seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 7, 2015 13:54:48 GMT 10
Interesting setup. Does the old ute run hydrolastic suspension? I'm not sure how they would get the load carrying capacity for a ute ( or do they run an engine drive pump to add more pressure, like a Citroen).
seeya,
Shane L.
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Post by doublechevron on May 7, 2015 11:46:34 GMT 10
Thanks Lawrence and Shane. So, I take it Viscount didn't have a "standard" wheel. That info you put me on to is most helpful. I want to change the stud pattern and axles on the tandem car trailer at some later date and I'll go down to the trailer parts supplier armed with that print out. I wouldn't say they don't or didn't have a standard wheel/hub. It is you/we don't know what someone else may have changed over the years. Plus there are no spare part manuals for these classic vans. Working out what axle/bearing/brakes etc can send you around the bend, if you have a good trailer place nearby go have a chat with them when the time comes and they will work it all out.
Cheers
That's for sure. My trailers are HQ, so I tried to convert the 'van here to HQ..... the bearing seats in the drums were about 2mm deeper, so they hit the backing plates. Nothing is standardised unless you go to modern Chinese parts. If caravan is located near ballarat, I can helpout to get it mobile (I might even have the right wheels here you can borrow to move it. the car trailer has HQ the caravan HT 14"). |
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Post by doublechevron on May 4, 2015 17:04:21 GMT 10
Wheel is off. Two actually. I am unable to travel to suburbia to a place that sells wheels in the timeframe. They have wheels on ebay, delivered to your door, for $45ea. If I buy them tonight, I will have them by the weekend, on my doorstep. Now, can anyone help, how do I know what stud pattern it is?
Go to this page and you will find all the different wheel sizes
Cheers
That's what he needs. Now all he needs is a ruler. Using the "Centre of Adjacent Studs mm" column. Measure the distance between the centre of any two studs. I'm betting 14" HT both caravans here are 14" HT ... I wonder if I'll be close seeya Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 4, 2015 15:51:46 GMT 10
How far is it store from ballarat ? If it's close, you can move it here to do the brakes etc.... Just find out the stud pattern and order in new wheels ... they will be delivered to your place for $105 each. I just bought a caravan that still had it's original cross ply tyres on it ........ So I ordered in a set of 4 new wheels and tyres: www.ebay.com.au/itm/171565746408?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITsaves all the messing around, and you don't ahve to worry about rusted or out of round old wheels. You NEED to know the stud pattern though. It could be ford, hq, ht, valiant ... there was quite a variety used. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on May 4, 2015 10:36:37 GMT 10
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Post by doublechevron on May 1, 2015 13:37:13 GMT 10
I figured I'd find out how much insurance is ... I rang CIL ... a specialist caravan insurance. What frustration HER: "What year is it" .... ME: "Late 80's" ...HER: "We need an exact year" .... ME: "I don't have an exact year" ...HER: "We need one" ...ME: "OK, just say it's an '88 model" .... HER: "OK, but we will need you to find the exact year of manufacture" ....ME: "er, ok ... How do I do that ?" ...... silence ..... HER: "take it to a caravan dealer, they will be able to tell you" .............. ME: "It's at one of the biggest regional dealers in Victoria, they don't know either, other than it's obviously a late 80's model".
Ok ... lets move on ....
HER: " Does it have annex walls" .... ME: "Yes, they are a part of the annex" .... HER: "We insure the walls separately, you need to insure them".... ME: "The walls are a part of the annex" ... HER: " We cover the roll out awnings and wall separately" ... Me: "There is no roll out awning, it is a full proper annex" .... HER: "Oh, ... um, ok, so we need to cover the annex walls separately" ........ Me: "DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN ANNEX IS" .... HER: "Yes it's the walls" ..... loud audible sigh. ME: "It's a full sized locally made period annex you feed it through a sail rail on the side of a caravan. You do know what an annex is right?" ... Her: "Of course I know what an annex is ... it's the walls" ....
My brain screams silently AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...ME: " FORGET IT. THERE IS NO ANEXX".
You know, I don't think I'll bother with insurance.
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Post by doublechevron on Apr 27, 2015 14:22:46 GMT 10
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Post by doublechevron on Apr 21, 2015 20:52:25 GMT 10
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Post by doublechevron on Apr 21, 2015 20:32:16 GMT 10
Just what you need Shane - another project! Nice looking van mate. You coming out to Wombat at the end of May? I'll have the Franklin in at the Potato patch. Cheers - Gav. Gee's I'd need two 101's hooked together to pull it into there if it's sloppy like last year .... A Rangy on very tame looking all terrains sure won't cut it |
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Post by doublechevron on Apr 21, 2015 20:17:43 GMT 10
G'day Shane, Congratulations on a great pick-up! That should serve you very nicely after you do your quality work on it.  I changed the shock absorbers and suspension top plates on my 1992 Windsor after I bought it home 3 years ago. The parts are still available from CaravansPlus (click here ). If you decide to change the coil springs (I didn't - mine still seemed ok), then note in the description that they come in two weight ratings - 600kg and 800kg, even though only the 800kg one is listed. You can see the old shockies in my thread (click here ). We had to cut the threaded bolts on the new suspension top plates back a bit with an angle grinder to get them to fit in the wheel housing area properly. Keep us posted as you work your magic on the van. cheers, Al. Oh gee's thanks for the link .... Um ... I wasn't going to touch the suspension, but now I'll pull it all down and check it. I figure given it wears the original tyres that haven't done a lot of work, it shouldn't be worn ? It's always better to be sure though. I'm amazed how much work you have done to that. One of the main appeals of this 'van is it's so unmessed with.... which probably means nothing works any longer LOL ... Oh well, that'll be fun to fix too. 2 x 4seasons hatches, 9 x windows, many, many, many meters of truline moulding to remove and reseal... Possibly 1 door hatch, 1 fridge vent too. I see 6 months of work on and off ... but hopefully very little money. It's interesting to note you can buy replacment truline moulding covers for a couple of dollars a meter. That'll really dress the old 'vans up. Does your windsor have that weird "jockey wheel" inside the hitch coupling setup? I wonder how that works. fortuantely someone has only tried to put some silicon on it in a few places (that correspond with slight water staining inside). That will never have fixed it though, they needed to pull the truline/J mould strip off, clean and reseal. not squish a bit of silicon against them with there finger seeya, Shane L. |
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BEWARE
Apr 21, 2015 17:12:47 GMT 10
Post by doublechevron on Apr 21, 2015 17:12:47 GMT 10
I used a crappy old range rover .... I doubt I'll find anything that weighs more than the 4tons it can tow ..... er.... I wonder if you'd get out of low range with 4tons on the back! I reckon the majority of caravans on the road would be flat trayed away given the staggering amount of stuff piled on and into them. Some would be weighing in at well over 3.5tons (which is the limit of the biggest 4wds). |
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It could be worse, at least this is readily accessible for an almost cost free repair (a few short bits of wood will cost nothing).
)
The 'van arrived here yesterday, looks, smells and seems dry inside. Feeling around iwth my hand I've found dampness around one of the 4seasons hatches and several of the windows... if I'd left it outside all winter I'd have a a rotten frame and lots of plywood to replace 
