Time for another project

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Well the old Chesney has spent 6months down at the beach in the last year.  It's survived some incredible gale forced winds (that tore all the anexe tie-downs from the side of the caravan and bent the anexe poles and torrential downpours 



The way I sealed up sure did work a rippa.

ditzygypsy.proboards.com/thread/2647/old-chesney

Sadly it'll now have to be sold, The ideal caravan with bunks in it appeared for sale... so I bought it right away.  It's an old Windsor.  The old Chesney is no doubt a much better built caravan having that aluminium frame ... but hey, bigger is better right.



I've never seen this layout in a large caravan before (it's almost always in a 17foot single axle 'van from the mid 80's).





Yeah that would be seating for about 10people!



Resealing this old thing is going to be an enormous job (due to the sheer size of the bloody thing!) to reseal.  It has weird coil spring independant suspension and still has it's original (unworn) cross ply tires on it.  The cracks in the tyres are amazing (the guy selling it happy to tow it back to my place for me when I said "No way am I towing that unless all the tires are replaced").  I'm expecting it to arrive either on a truck with shredded tires or with 4 newies

seeya,
Shane L.

[Deleted]

Hi Shane,great old Windsor you have picked up!
It has Windsor Independant suspension on it which works really well.
All the components used to be available from Preston Chassis in Melbourne,and the shockers are Pedders ones.
This suspension can also have wheel alignment done if it's out of whack,just take van to someone that does truck alignment.
You also have the deluxe version with the tinted black radius windows (standard model had square silver framed ones)
Enjoy.
Cheers
hughdeani

[doublechevron]

It's had 2 owners from new according to the seller. The first owner traded it 4years ago, and it was taken down to port fairy. The 2nd owner just traded it back in on a new boat. I'd say it spent the first 20year of it's life sitting in a hay shed on a farm. There is no evidence of it doing any milage ... or being left in the weather. Slight fading of the paint. marginal water staining that would take a lot of finding. I imagine those shockers will be stuffed from lack of use ( given it still has it's seemingly original unworn cross plies on it). It's rare to find a 'van of this vintage that hasn't had a hard annexe screwed to it's side and isnt' full of water damage.

Oh well... Many months of scraping off old sealer ahead for me. I'll need to re-do all the Jmolds, both 4seasons hatches and the windows. The sealer in them will be 25year old mastic.... that'll have turned to concrete. I'll also need ot wire brush and paint the chassis given it spend the last few years sitting at hte beach.

seeya,
Shane L.

[pisces51]

G'day Shane,

Congratulations on a great pick-up! That should serve you very nicely after you do your quality work on it.

I changed the shock absorbers and suspension top plates on my 1992 Windsor after I bought it home 3 years ago. The parts are still available from CaravansPlus (click here ). If you decide to change the coil springs (I didn't - mine still seemed ok), then note in the description that they come in two weight ratings - 600kg and 800kg, even though only the 800kg one is listed.

You can see the old shockies in my thread (click here ). We had to cut the threaded bolts on the new suspension top plates back a bit with an angle grinder to get them to fit in the wheel housing area properly.

Keep us posted as you work your magic on the van.

cheers,
Al.

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Apr 21, 2015 17:57:08 GMT 10 pisces51 said:

G'day Shane,

Congratulations on a great pick-up! That should serve you very nicely after you do your quality work on it.

I changed the shock absorbers and suspension top plates on my 1992 Windsor after I bought it home 3 years ago. The parts are still available from CaravansPlus (click here ). If you decide to change the coil springs (I didn't - mine still seemed ok), then note in the description that they come in two weight ratings - 600kg and 800kg, even though only the 800kg one is listed.

You can see the old shockies in my thread (click here ). We had to cut the threaded bolts on the new suspension top plates back a bit with an angle grinder to get them to fit in the wheel housing area properly.

Keep us posted as you work your magic on the van.

cheers,
Al.

Oh gee's thanks for the link .... Um ... I wasn't going to touch the suspension, but now I'll pull it all down and check it.  I figure given it wears the original tyres that haven't done a lot of work, it shouldn't be worn ?  It's always better to be sure though.  I'm amazed how much  work you have done to that.  One of the main appeals of this 'van is it's so unmessed with....  which probably means nothing works any longer LOL ... Oh well, that'll be fun to fix too.

2 x 4seasons hatches,  9 x windows, many, many, many meters of truline moulding to remove and reseal...  Possibly 1 door hatch, 1 fridge vent too.  I see 6 months of work on and off ... but hopefully very little money.  It's interesting to note you can buy replacment truline moulding covers for a couple of dollars a meter.  That'll really dress the old 'vans up.

Does your windsor have that weird "jockey wheel" inside the hitch coupling setup?  I wonder how that works.  fortuantely someone has only tried to put some silicon on it in a few places (that correspond with slight water staining inside).  That will never have fixed it though, they needed to pull the truline/J mould strip off, clean and reseal.  not squish a bit of silicon against them with there finger

seeya,
Shane L.

[snoops]

Just what you need Shane - another project!

Nice looking van mate. You coming out to Wombat at the end of May? I'll have the Franklin in at the Potato patch.

Cheers - Gav.

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Apr 21, 2015 20:21:17 GMT 10 snoops said:

Just what you need Shane - another project!

Nice looking van mate. You coming out to Wombat at the end of May? I'll have the Franklin in at the Potato patch.

Cheers - Gav.

Gee's I'd need two 101's hooked together to pull it into there if it's sloppy like last year ....  A Rangy on very tame looking all terrains sure won't cut it

[snoops]

Yeah, you'd be right. . I'll be sitting around relaxing on Saturday if you want to drop if for a cuppa and a chat. Don't think it will be as bad as last year, but I will be towing mine in with the 101.

[Mustang]

Great thinking with the fold up bed, looks a comfortable project.

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I figured I'd find out how much insurance is ... I rang CIL ... a specialist caravan insurance. What frustration HER: "What year is it" .... ME: "Late 80's" ...HER: "We need an exact year" .... ME: "I don't have an exact year" ...HER: "We need one" ...ME: "OK, just say it's an '88 model" .... HER: "OK, but we will need you to find the exact year of manufacture" ....ME: "er, ok ... How do I do that ?" ...... silence ..... HER: "take it to a caravan dealer, they will be able to tell you" .............. ME: "It's at one of the biggest regional dealers in Victoria, they don't know either, other than it's obviously a late 80's model".

Ok ... lets move on ....

HER: " Does it have annex walls" .... ME: "Yes, they are a part of the annex" .... HER: "We insure the walls separately, you need to insure them".... ME: "The walls are a part of the annex" ... HER: " We cover the roll out awnings and wall separately" ... Me: "There is no roll out awning, it is a full proper annex" .... HER: "Oh, ... um, ok, so we need to cover the annex walls separately" ........ Me: "DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN ANNEX IS" .... HER: "Yes it's the walls" ..... loud audible sigh. ME: "It's a full sized locally made period annex you feed it through a sail rail on the side of a caravan. You do know what an annex is right?" ... Her: "Of course I know what an annex is ... it's the walls" ....

My brain screams silently AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...ME: " FORGET IT. THERE IS NO ANEXX".

You know, I don't think I'll bother with insurance.

[pisces51]

Thanks doublechevron, that would have to be the funniest story I've heard in a long time!

I can understand why you'd not bother with insurance after having to deal with these sorts of people. Imagine trying to get a claim processed!!!

cheers,
Al.

[doublechevron]

Well it arrived in good shape. The caravan place has fitted the new wheels.... for some reason they insisted they had to do a "safety check" on it ( I don't know what that involves in Victoria).

They have fitted a new wiring plug, new tail lights, new gas bottle, new gas regulator.... I imagine they had to check nothing leaked and everything worked.

As expected after all this rain, although it looks and smells dry inside I can feel dampness around one of the 4seasons hatches and several of the windows. It's all tucked up safely in the shed now ... I'll let it dry for a few weeks before I reseal any of the windows that have dampness in them.

It has sliding windows, so I hope they can't leak from the windows themselves (the seals look old and hard). it must have copped some serious winds coming up to ballarat. I'm glad it was behind a heavy truck. The front window cover had blown out as has one of the 4 seasons hatches!

The more I go over it the more pleased I am with it. What a bloody ripper. I reckon I'd easily get 70% more for it than I paid after it's all sealed up and cleaned.... this one however, isn't for sale. not for many years.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Deleted]

Let the restoring/recycling begin. Whats this wait a few weeks, when my van came home my wife expected me to have it finish by the end of the month, I'll give you a week and something will be getting pulled off.

cheers

[doublechevron]

Oh yeah ... I'm itching to get out there and start pulling it to bits .... There's so much other stuff I need to do first. And I want to make sure it's all dry before I start. Fingers crossed there's no wood rot in the frame ( I'm not expecting there to be any there). I might buy in some clay bars and clean the paint before I start. I reckon it'll come up like new. It's amazingly straight for a 29year old caravan (it has a build plate on it ... '86).

[doublechevron]

I think I'll be able to just get another piece of aluminium cut and fitted for this.



This is what happened to the 4seasons hatch.  I'm hoping I can just clip it back together.  Hopefully they just pop apart.  I'll find out when I remove them I guess.



The roof is remarkably clean for a 30year old caravan.  The gas compliance plate says "86".  So it's build date is early '86 or late '85.  Note: the silicon.  The white looking stuff on the J mould is concrete like mastic.  Look at the nice big crown in the roof to "encourage" the water to drain off and not pool up there.



I find this interesting.  The front of the caravan "J" mould.... Note: the silicon on the roof.  They used mastic on the visible front/rear Jmould wall.  That has obviously turned to concrete and started leaking decades ago.  Note: someone has done the "push silicon in to seal it" with there finger along the edges.  This won't work due to all the dirt wicked under there.



The roof was "siliconed" from new.  Note: no traces of previous "cleaning" for resealing, no traces of mastic.  These J moulds have never been off since manufacture (this is after chiseling off the mastic that overlapped all the silicon on the annex rail).  So windsor was using silicon in the mid 80's to seal the roofs of there caravans.





Even back in the mid '80s they did an absolutely shithouse job with the Jmould seals.  See all the spots completely missed!  they used about 5% of the silicon they need to seal them.   What saved the thing was when they troweled the silicon down the roof seems, they also troweled it down the sides of the Jmoulds.



like this.  the rock hard mastic is from where I've unscrewed the annex rail (the annex manufacturer has fitted the rail over the top of the silicon sealed Truline/J moulds but used mastic (yeah that'll work over silicon LOL ).

NOTE:  THIS 30year old silicon is 100% perfect.  No deterioration or delamination has been found.  The roof seems are all still perfect looking too.  So all the people that say "don't use silicon, it doesn't last" ..... it does... so long as the underlying metal is clean and scuffed.  All of this had to be cut off with a knife.

I HAVE found damage to the frame down at the bottom edge of the Jmould (right at the very bottom) where the mastic sealed walls have leaked.  I'm going to have to try and release the cladding from the end wall to replace 30cm pieces of frame the Jmoulds screw too front and back.  I did find a small amount of water staining int he front corner when I checked the caravan over.... but it's quite horrifying how a tiny water stain == completely rotten framing behind it.  Wow wooden frame caravans are a stupid idea.  the frame has soaked up the water and disintegrated like toilet paper.  The rotten frame at the back ....  I did use a torch in the storage area and cupboards to check for leakage/staining before I bought it and oculdn't find any here.... I've just checked again... There is the barely faintest trace of water mark on the plywood under the bunk .....  but completely rotten frame behind it.  So even the tiniest, slightest of water staining in a wooden frame 'van == ROTTEN FRAME.  I'm concerned about the few windows I found water staining under now ....  

I could leave this unrepaired as the only reason the bit of frame exist is so the "J" mould has something to screw too... but I won't, I'll replace.  Once this caravan is resealed properly, it'll never leak again in my lifetime given the quality of the 30year old silicon on it's roof.

seeya,
Shane L.

[doublechevron]

Oh yeah ... what timber do you guys use for frame repair ? I don't know how I'll fix under the few windows that have staining under them in the past if they have rotted anything like the back corner!

[snoops]

Meranti is commonly used in caravans. It is light and fairly strong for its weight. If it's only a few bits, pine is fine and I even used a couple of bits of dressed hardwood down low where I wanted things super strong.

[Mustang]

WOW, You do wonder about these "moderns" using wooden frames, surley history will repeat itself.

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May 19, 2015 20:27:57 GMT 10 Mustang said:

WOW, You do wonder about these "moderns" using wooden frames, surley history will repeat itself.

that's funny ....  If you think this "modern"   30year old caravan is bad .... don't look at the poorly built new stuff:


caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12286

I'll post some photos of the rot tomorrow.  The windows sure do have me concerned.  I looked under the all before I purchased it and they all looked very good.  I'm obviously crap at checking caravans though 'cos if I'd pulled the curtains back that cover the very edge of the windows, they all have at least small traces of water damage.  Given the experience with the Jmoulds, this guarantees rotten frames under them.

This is why I would NEVER buy a caravan that's painted internally.  The frame is still very rotten underneath the painted ply (that now hides all the water stains).

This is one of the better older caravans I've ever looked in .... very original, unbattered, not smelly, no obvious wate damage...  If this one needs frame repair, imagine how bad the average stinky, mouldy smelling heavily water stained caravan is   (even if it is "painted" so renovated   )

[doublechevron]

OK, under the bunk in the back corner:





if i climb in there with a light ... you can see the moisture staining.... Invisible under torch light.



I was hoping to simply release the back wall as it's only held on with staples along the bottom (that way I could push the slight dent out from behind too)....................... Yeah right! Those bastard little stapples, you can only get them out easily if the wood is rotten behind them.... and it's not. There is probably 50staples across the bottom of that wall. I tried to remove 3 of them, and damaged the cladding around the staples on all three and couldn't extract them...... So I approached it from the side wall. I unscrewd the cladding where I could, and had to remove the annex wall rail from the side of the 'van.



the frame all looks brand new and unmarked except for the one 30cm length at the bottom edge. It's not structural and does nothing other than give the Jmould something to screw too. It's just dissolves to the touch. I'll measure it up and get some treated pine from bunnings in the same size to replace it. I'm guess glueing the replacement wood in is the best fix ?



Ok, front corner, inside the fold up bed cupboard. There is minor, but obvious water staining.



Wow this is an amazing setup this caravan. Look what I found under the head of the mattress. Another huge storage box that gets me right down into the front corner of the caravan.



it looks dirty and slightly damp, but not "rotten/moisture stained".



same trick as the back, remove annex rails and wall cladding screws.



You can see the frame away from the edge is perfect.



The one edge frame bit is once again .... rotten as buggery. If they'd used the silicon down the walls as well as the roof, this would all be perfect still It could be worse, at least this is readily accessible for an almost cost free repair (a few short bits of wood will cost nothing).



Check this out ... not only did it wear it's original unworn tires ... the instructions are still there for the annex, and the annex feels brand new and has a slightly oily/cardboard feel to it. It's obviously been used maybe once in 30years.



wood rot aside around the window frames (which I have decided I will find ... sigh ....) this is the issue with the windows. The rubber seals have shrunk with age and no longer fit .... and will certainly leak.



Has anyone resealed the sliding windows on there caravans ?

seeya,
Shane L.

[doublechevron]

I don't get what people think they'll achieve squirting silicon on leaky stuff..... Never, ever work. You need to pull the parts off, clean and refit. I think this is the worst window on the caravan... and I was quite concerned.



WWWAaaayyy better than I was expecting. 95% of it is "as new".... I'll need to replace the bottom corner though.



That black area will disintegrate to the touch. So I'll replace that corner.... easy job, just release the cladding so you have access.



The old mastic is a joke.... it's like brittle old cement. It wouldn't seal anything. Either woudl the bit of silicone smeared over the top edge.

[Mustang]

Imagine how this would have scared the B-Jesus out of you if you had not had the experience of your previous reno???

[pisces51]

G'day Shane,

I'm really impressed with how diligent you are in investigating and assessing the suspect areas in this van. No doubt this second restoration will end up just as good as the Chesney Pacemaker you've already worked on.

You probably won't get too many people on this forum who are familiar with the sliding windows from the 1980s, but I shouldn't think they'd be any more complicated to refurbish than the windows from the '70s (except those blasted Millard double/triple louvre windows  ). Looking at one of your photos above, I can see the drainage outlet at the bottom of the window, and I would think it's important to check these are clear and more importantly that they have a large enough opening to allow water to drain away quickly.

I'm not sure about supply of the glazing wedge (aka window rubber) but I reckon your windows would be a Camec origin and you could make contact with them for possible sources.

Keep up the good work. The detail you are posting is exactly what we like to see, and will help others enormously when they are tackling similar problems.

cheers,

Al. 

[doublechevron]

Thanks Guys,

I reckon everyone must just turn a blind eye to it ... paint the water staining inside, and glue the truline seals and windows back in iwth silicon if a lot of the screw won't take into the rotten wood. Then sell it as "fully renovated". It sure is an eye opener 'cos this is one of the better old caravans I've ever looked at (lack of water staining, smells and feels dry etc...).  Most importantly it's not painted to hide all the evidence of leakage!

seeya,
Shane l.

[doublechevron]

Oh yeah ... I found this interesting. Last night I shoved that window back in with 3 screws... just to make sure mice/rats wouldn't get in through the big hole.



The idea of the white mastic sealer is it's supposed to stay moist and never dry (so it'll stay sealed as the caravan moves and twists slightly as it drives down the road). Now I couldn't pry that mastic off the wood with my fingers, or gently wit a screwdriver (being rough with the screwdriver would splinter the wood). I found if I gave the mastic a good solid whack iwth a hammer it would shatter like ice   .... I could them brush it away with my fingers.

You really are wasting your time pumping silicon around the window edges when this is what is under the window frame!