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Post by doublechevron on Jul 4, 2015 9:38:39 GMT 10
A double glazed perspex version with those details would be ace. I have not seen any wind out windows around the modernish caravans i have camped alongside, most are the perspex camec or whatever brand the double glazed euro ones are. Those perspex ones are wind out too .... I know 'cos I've bashed my head on them several time   |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 3, 2015 23:48:20 GMT 10
so does anyone know if the asbestos was still used in the 80s? As I have a massive amount of it to clean off still  |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 3, 2015 23:36:00 GMT 10
Ok, I've pulled out a window and played with ........... and are quite confused now. You see, they made these windows in the mid 80's as there fitted to this caravan ..... I'm confused 'cos I don't understand why those crappy wind out windows still exist. The wind out windows: --have frail winder mechanisms that break ... --have frail handles... that break --have frail lock down tab .... that break --have frail plastic window attachemnt parts ... that break --have very expensive flywire screens .... that work well until they hole --I guarantee ... if you have any wind out windows that actually work on your caravan ... and use them someone WILL smash there head into them within the first few days of your first holiday (especially if there the windows under the annex/awning that get wound out. Check this out... this is a 30year old window that's never been repaired.  Flywire screen. Just clips out.  flywire can be easily replaced by just pulling the cord out ... and putting it back.  there's a "wiper" on the back edge that will wipe condensation off ... and stop flies getting in where the flywire touches the sliding glass.  It just slots into the aluminium frame.  I peeled the seal out ....  There is double sided tape there sealing and holding the glass in ... the rubber doesn't do any sealing ....  I removed the silicon someone had put over the windows... All they needed to do to stop them leaking was remove the damn thing and replace the mastic.  big drains, covered so rain can't blow in from the outside.  even if the windows leak .... the water won't go inside the caravan. the drain cavity is HUGE ... you'd need to flood the entire bottom "C" section of the window frame quicker than those two big slots to drain to get the water inside.  A solid metal clip that rotates and locks into the recess in the frame to stop the window sliding open.  The design of these windows is nothing short of brilliant...... So why on earth are those frail wind out windows still being used today ?  I just gave it a quick wipe down ... the window is in "as new" condition. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 3, 2015 16:53:49 GMT 10
What about where we wear a mask while cleaning it off .... But it's on the ground, in the dirt and dust in the sheds for the next few years..... Oh well, not much we can do about it. We could be safe given were talking mid '70s ... most 'vans would have been resealed multiple times by then!
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 3, 2015 15:49:30 GMT 10
Yeah, it appears chiselling is the go... I put on about 6 jumpers and a coat last night and spent an hour out there ( can anyone say BLOODY COLD!!!). Anyway I found the best way to remove the stuff was a small sharp plastic handled screwdriver and a panel hammer to tap the screwdriver with. If you lucky you'll break a big chunk out all at once. It took me about an hour to chisel clean about 1/3rd of the window and window surround of the smallest window above the sink  Guess what I'm doing for the next 2months in every spare second  seeya, shane L.  Now imagine removing that stuff up a 40m + tower in minus C conditions with wind chill Sounds like fun .... Do I get to fly a kite while I'm up there  |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 3, 2015 14:42:13 GMT 10
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 3, 2015 11:37:42 GMT 10
Not a lot there... interesting to read they think old mastic contains upto 25% asbestos ..... I hadn't realised that. Given were breaking it up for removal..... It isn't dusty at all though, it's in big chunks, so likely safe unless your sanding it.
seeya,
Shane L.
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 3, 2015 9:50:58 GMT 10
You guys are mad about Citroen's like I am about Land Rovers  Yeah I've got a couple....er, no one of them too I'm accepting donations of 101's if anyone has some to spare seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 3, 2015 9:49:31 GMT 10
Yeah, it appears chiselling is the go... I put on about 6 jumpers and a coat last night and spent an hour out there ( can anyone say BLOODY COLD!!!). Anyway I found the best way to remove the stuff was a small sharp plastic handled screwdriver and a panel hammer to tap the screwdriver with. If you lucky you'll break a big chunk out all at once. It took me about an hour to chisel clean about 1/3rd of the window and window surround of the smallest window above the sink Guess what I'm doing for the next 2months in every spare second seeya, shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 2, 2015 15:27:28 GMT 10
The trick with any chemical is to play smart and be patient, a few applications to soak in and why i suggested toluene or similar is that it swells the mastic causing it to lift off, the hard top skin is just to trick you:) A 2cv that is not two tone looks weird haha. Hard top skin ... man that's hilarious ... It's so hard I've broken a lot of it away by tapping it with a hammer ...... it shatters like ice and falls away seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 2, 2015 15:02:07 GMT 10
I would imagine chemical warfare would de mastic without damage, toluene or turps ? A balance of enough to swell and lift without diluting and spreading the gunge. A mates first serious love then marriage was to a Citroen obsessive. 30 odd years and a divorce later she still loves and has a 1960s Citroen, 2CV?? reliably restored, the baggage is she is known as the Citroen Queen by her mates who are obsessed with same same 2010 onwards boxes of disposable transport My mother has a 2cv ..... I tend to borrow it whenever she's not around to say "LEAVE MY CAR ALONE" .... It's absolutely hilarious.  My son loves it! I should fit a car seat into next time my parents aren't about and take him for a spin in it ...... he'd think it's hilarious with the roof flapping about ....... (not to mentions the doors ... .and windows... and well everything flapping about in the breeze ). The mastic is so hard, I"m not sure about anything liquid moving it .... I might try making myself a wooden scraper/chisel out of the soft pine here and see if it works (or just breaks). Certainly I'll give the turps a go though! seeya, shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 2, 2015 13:53:32 GMT 10
yep good work, I was thinking the same also! Shayne, pics are very helpful. Love this forum for ideas and reading experiences! Im only on window 1 of 7 so great timing. Tell me about it ... 7 ?? I have 9 windows, 2 four seasons hatches, 4 vent covers (metal ones ... the factory even installed the stove vent crooked LOL ) and all the lights to go. It's all fun right ? (lets not mention many, many, many meters of tru-lines to clean and reseal ). Actually I probably should pull the doorway out and reseal too... I can see the old concrete mastic all around it. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 2, 2015 10:31:20 GMT 10
I am really diggin the citroens... love french cars and theres a few here in Tassie that i admire and think i would like to have one. Great work on van, i also painted my aframe black, looks much better than silver. Tired, desperate old Citroens just seem to seek me out .... Dunno how Speaking of which .... Check this out ... www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Citroen-DS-21-1970/SSE-AD-3480835/?Cr=0given the crappy photoshopped pictures I'd say it's a desperate heap of nuts..... But .... I *can* see the squiggly gearstick sticking out of the top of the steering column through the windscreen. When means it's a very rare ( in Australia ) DS21 BVH ... ie: hydraulic gearbox. There a bog standard manual gearbox but hydraulics do the donkey work of engaging/dis-engaging the clutch and moving the gearbox selectors. Brilliant things to drive when setup right (you just move the little gearstick lever through it's gate ... it's a hydraulic control block that tells the gearbox which gear to move too). If I wasn't so money and time poor I'd already be looking at it Back to caravans, I noticed last night when I pulled another bunk window out ..... You know, those rubbers seals are still soft, I think I just need to pull the windows apart and refit all the seals so there locked into place, then use a dab of windscreen sealer (black in colour and adhesive) at the edges to join all the seals up "as one". Has anyone figured out an easy way of removing the rock hard old mastic from the cladding, window side is easy, you can break it up with a screwdriver like lumps of dried out clay. I don't want to risk scratching up all the cladding by using a screwdriver though! seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 1, 2015 16:52:01 GMT 10
Thanks, I was just thinking were hijacking the poor guys thread seeya, shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 1, 2015 15:30:39 GMT 10
I just have this feeling mastic ribbon will fail as you can't "squeeze it" and force it through all the gaps. Here's how I did it .... I just followed cabcars instructions like a parrot.  foam seal from bunnings to contain and protect the rubber butyl sealer.  I found this wasn't enough ...  from the inside of the caravan, you can see it hasn't "hydraulic'd" right through the window surround.  so I whipped the window back out and pumped a shitload more sealer on there.  It squeezes all the way through to the inside of the caravan as you screw the window down. I can't see how this would ever leak. The window will always readily remove though as it doesn't "glue" it at all. I wonder how long it will take for the mastic to dry out again ? My guess is decades. seeya, shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 1, 2015 11:07:49 GMT 10
Some great tips and ways to get around fitting things into thin air Shane! One comment if you or inspired folks reading this thread may consider for the long term, is to treat the new timber with a penetrating expoxy or similar, to prevent rot. While products like everdure are expensive they work. A cheaper way may be some layers of very thinned varnish to soak in. The cavity of a van can have moisture suck up from many places, parked over grass after a rain then heating up when the sun comes back. hen you see damage it is mostly because of trapped water, rather than just water comming in and falling out again. Wet timber against plastic trim is a good example. That's a good point... I was thinking "It'll never leak again so it'll be fine".... But it will suck moisture up. I'll coat all of the areas with varnish as it'll soak into the soft pine I'd imagine (oil would probably be ok, but it'd dry out over time to quickly I'd imagine). I'll paint this all when I pull it back out to glue, and paint the corner repairs too (the corner repairs are readily accessible ... this one won't be once fitted). Thanks for the feedback seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 1, 2015 10:28:15 GMT 10
Moving along ... back at the start of this thread I was concerned with the window I pulled out just to have a look...  Black wood I've found == completely rotten... No "if's or buts" it's no good.  I just squeezed with my fingers and broke it all up this deeply.... it's like wet tissue paper.  I figure this rot is like rust.... cut the entire area out and weld in new metal I mean somehow put new wood in there.  carefully break it out after cutting through. it's rotten so you don't need brute force.  Cut the frame upright through .... no point leaving even a trace of rotten nuts there  That looks better ... and is probably no "less strong" than before........  Replacement wood with lots of bracing to re-enforce the areas (it'll be very much stronger than it was when built).  I was wondering how on earth I was going to cut out the corner bits as they were bigger than the wood I purchased.... Then it hit me .... I have piles and piles and piles of broken pine boards there.  I must have 30 bits of this around from the training seminars over the last 6months that I haven't yet burnt.  I found no matter what I tried, I couldn't fit the replacement section of wood in .... hmmmm.... I figured all I needed to do was fit the lower brace first. I screwed a big screw into it so I could hold onto it without it falling down into the wall while I drilled out the first screw hole.  I actually managed it first attempt without loosing the wood down in the wall.... trying to lay on my back and hold/assemble cars in dark restricted impossible to access places must finally have paid off All that practice wasn't for nothing   Looks good here ... but does the window fit ?   Perfect! It's a crying shame about the moisture damage there But it is 100% completely hidden with the inner window surround fitted, and curtain hanging. I might force some wood glue down into the damaged ply to glue all the layers back together in the meantime. I won't be hiding this with paint or anything. I'd rather see it there if I was buying a caravan than have it hidden behind paint! I now need to unscrew and remove it all and re-fit with plently of glue. That'll lock it up solidly ... stronger than new! I found if I found the inner decorative trim from all the windows I could clearly see the frame. Quite a few of the windows have moisture damage under them (all hidden by the curtains in the very corners). However there is only one other window that will need any repairs to the frame. I fluked picking the worst window by far just to have a look at seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jun 29, 2015 15:31:00 GMT 10
Hi
I think you may get more answers from this "FORUM" as it covers more modern caravans, someone here may know but we cover caravans from 1970 till 1980's(early)
Cheers The problem you'll find is they only allow morons over there. I've had an IP ban placed on me 'cos I speak common sense rather than gibberish bullshit LOL. When I want a cheerup I'll make myself some false ID's over there and have some fun with the nutty admin. IP bans mean nothing these days. If you want to see endless threads of people fighting with each over... all of which seem to know bugger all about the subject at hand. Go over to the caravan forum and enjoy yourself. Don't expect to find anyone that actually knows the topic at hand though. They are all banned almost right away as they speak common sense. If your can be bothered joining, I suggest asking them if your 15amp lead with a filed earth pin is ok to use seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jun 29, 2015 15:03:25 GMT 10
Champion. I think I follow. I know that tape you are referring to as I remember seeing it on caravans plus - and it sounds like what I have been scraping off the window frame since i removed it. Its still a bit soft/tacky. Like you I dont like the idea of silicon, and prefer to know that if I never need to remove a window it will be as simple as it was the first time. I have already bought replacement flyscreen and looks to be an exact match of the factory version. Has the same 'melted' in rubber/plastic surround that hooks over the frame of the window. Wedge and seal also purchased so now just awaiting some perspex. Havent decided where to go yet, but know bunnings would be an expensive way to go! Thanks a lot for this info. I will go back over your thread. Its already helped me to no end! No way use silicon on the windows.... I'd only do it the way I did. Personal preference of course The way the butyl mastic hydraulics itself all the way through the frame to the inside of the caravan filling all voids has me sold. The foam edging protects the butyl from drying out. I don't like the idea of using any sort of mastic tape. your relying on using enough compression screwing down the tru molds to seal it. If you use a silicon/urethane/mastic the hydraulic pressure of screwing the mold down will force sealant into every void and gap ... so it would never leak (unless you used a mastic that can dry out or melt in the heat). seeya Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jun 28, 2015 22:33:52 GMT 10
My brother found a ripper last weekend. Now this is a modern caravan ... about 2000 .....  He's now looking at importing a pommy 'van 'cos he likes the layout of them. This one is about $24,000 .... He reckons it's not real nice and dated inside ('cos he's now used to looking at the pommy 'vans that are so much nicer inside compared to the local stuff). Anyway, this 'van is very good. One of the best he's looked at. Bunks, ensuite, no signs of water damage anywhere (a first). See the photo above. He noticed something hanging down a bit. It turns out the front wall of the caravan has been covered with flooring vinyl. It looks so good and matches so well he wouldn't have noticed if it hadn't come away a tiny bit at the the top..... So he goes and sticks his head into the front boot and looks up .... .The entire front wall of the van is incredibly rotten. It needs replacing. So here's a new one to look out for .... Make sure you "FEEL" each wall and make sure it's not vinyl It's a brilliant very dodgy way of hiding water damage 'cos it looks perfect and hides completelly hides the ply, no matter how badly damaged it is. There's osmeone out there obviously "fixing" 'vans like these to make a $$$$ seeya, Shane L. PS: He pointed that out to the owner, and he was stunned. "what the hell do I do now" ...... My brother said "dunno, if you can live with youself, sell it without telling anyone |
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Post by doublechevron on Jun 28, 2015 21:51:47 GMT 10
I finally found some time to spend on the caravan..... Gee's it takes me forever to get around to stuff.  I can actually cut a straight line with the use of one of these saws... That's gotta be a first. As a computer programmer I sure do make a crap carpenter LOL (I much prefer working with metal myself).   Simple trial and error to get the angles and length right. I just marked and cut as close as I could, then stuck the bits of wood into the caravan to see if the angle had to less or more... Then because that slide saw had an angle gauge, you just add 2degrees +/- until you get exactly what you need (yeah I suck at measure stuff like angles.  These are the bits I replaced.  It's all glued and screwed together so the repairs will be far stronger than the stapled together hardwood that was there originally.  Fortunately I've been able to access the corners that need to be replaced. It would be a PITA if you had to remove the cladding. It would be almost impossible without destruction.   Same thing for the lower back wall. I think I'll pull all the windows and vent covers and see if there is any other frame repairs that are needed before I start any sealing up and re-assembly. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jun 28, 2015 20:10:10 GMT 10
Amazing stuff is used correclty seeya, Shane L. Hi Shane, My experience has only been BAD, with idiots on the end of the gun Just dug another window out today, plastered with the stuff, spent all day removing it from the frame, getting experience though.  Cheers  Do it right ... and it's the best of the lot IMO. The stuff on the roof of the windsor I have to cut off.... It's so sound it'll do another 30years easily. I really don't think the sealer type that is used matters. more important is proper preperation. And ensuring you "hydraulic" the sealant down into all the voids by squeezing it out. Where silicon fails, so would a fancy urthane if surface prep is poor. Personally I HATE silicon with a passion. Once someone uses it near *anything* it's then almost impossible to clean or paint in the future. It's also very painful to remove. It is a brilliant product if used correctlly though. That Chesney I just sold won't leak again in my lifetime from anywhere I've re-sealed. I'm quite sure of that This windsor will be the same. This is silicon ... about 30years old. I can't get it off. It's as sound as the day it was applied 30years ago... I had to mechanically cut it with a knife to get the Truline seals off. Nothing sealed with silicon has leaked since the caravan was built. Everything sealed with mastic HAS leaked. All the leaking mastic covered with silicon has continued to leak and looks bloody horrible. You must remove, clean and reseal with whatever your favorite sealer is .... and i reckon these days it'll last the life of the caravan (as the products are way better than the mastic used in the past). seeya, shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jun 28, 2015 11:32:34 GMT 10
I dont' think anything other than completely stripping the old sealer away and troweling silicon down the roof seams would work in the long term ...... seeya, Shane L. AAaaaahhhh theres that Sil**ne word again    What's wrong with silicone... Have a look at the wiindsor I just bought. nearly 30years old and the silicone on the roof seems is as good as the day it left the factory. Amazing stuff is used correclty seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jun 27, 2015 20:50:27 GMT 10
I dont' think anything other than completely stripping the old sealer away and troweling silicon down the roof seams would work in the long term ......
seeya,
Shane L.
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Post by doublechevron on Jun 27, 2015 20:33:28 GMT 10
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Now imagine removing that stuff up a 40m + tower in minus C conditions with wind chill 
