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Post by liberate on Mar 20, 2017 9:44:16 GMT 10
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Post by tasmillard on Mar 20, 2017 10:15:44 GMT 10
Hi liberate, and welcome. My millard is M14866 and was placed as a 1970 model.
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Post by Husky on Mar 20, 2017 10:21:38 GMT 10
Welcome Liberate. Looks like you have a bit of work ahead. Looking forward to following along.
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Post by liberate on Mar 20, 2017 11:29:30 GMT 10
Thanks guys,
Tasmillard I have been checking out your New and Millard 16ft thread and linked vids on Youtube. I have already learned so much. Great job mate.
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Post by tasmillard on Mar 20, 2017 12:10:02 GMT 10
Thanks, but the aim is to share the knowledge and I have learned so much from the members here when I first got the Millard that I am paying it forward through my vids.
Cheers,
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Post by 78466noM on Mar 22, 2017 8:36:00 GMT 10
Hi Liberate looking forward to the story of your van as it transforms .
Looks like you have a good base to start with but still a lot of work ask any questions you like there is no such thing as a stupid question people here will help with answers to best of there ability or steer you in the right direction to find your answers .
All the best with your build and we hope the unexpected that you find are only small inconveniences
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Post by captivenut on Mar 22, 2017 9:55:27 GMT 10
Hi Liberate, I thought Shelley might arrive to give a date on your M22872 but in her absence I'll quote from her spreadsheet (hope she doesn't mind?)...
M21006 is listed as 1971
M25842 is listed as 1973
That's a big window and there doesn't appear to be any other listings during that period. But Shelley may have some other numbers that have not been entered yet? It seems production may have slowed down somewhat during that time - which is a point that I've mentioned before. I've posted some of my own assumptions in the past but that's not science so best I stick with Shelley's forensics.
Using the list, your Millard fits in as 71 - 72?
Using the same list Tasmillard's M14866 fits in as early 1970?...
M14175 is listed as 1970
M15171 has been confirmed as 1/4/70
As mentioned in other threads on this forum, there is an assumption that M14000 marked the start of 1970.
For more detailed info you can download Shelley's list from the Millard York fb page
Cheers, Arthur
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Post by Mustang on Mar 22, 2017 9:57:21 GMT 10
Keep that interior colour going.
Check out the Millard story in the Museum!!
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Post by liberate on Mar 22, 2017 10:37:46 GMT 10
Thanks everyone,
I have since joined that FB group Captivenut and had a look at the spreadsheet, thanks for your in depth explanation. I am thinking around the 72 mark too.
Unfortunately Mustang the wife HATED the Orange and all traces of it have since disappeared minus the fridge and rangehood ( which will go eventually ) if anybody knows someone who needs/wants either or both, point them in my direction!
I will have a look in the Millard Museum when I get a chance.
Another question, I don't have a pic of it, but there seems to be a vacuum brake cylinder just behind the over-ride brake. Can I just remove this or is it used in conjunction with the over-ride brake?
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Post by Rattles on Mar 22, 2017 12:15:27 GMT 10
I think you will find the fridge has a 2mm removable Orange Panel,
just remove the top garnish and slide out the Orange panel and
slide wood/laminate in one of your choice of colour.
Rattles
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 15:34:46 GMT 10
Welcome to the forum, my 1977 Franklin also is orage for the factory and I love it.
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Post by 78466noM on Mar 22, 2017 22:13:44 GMT 10
rattles is spot on about fridge if it is gas electric and works they are expensive to buy new and second hand it is the luck of the draw if you get a good one or a dud. The range-hood if you want to keep it may be able to be powder coated . I thought the vacuum over hydraulic was made illegal but after searching for two hours found this VACUUM-OPERATED This system died out for caravans in the late 1970s, and the most popular here in Australia was the system manufactured by PBR. The vacuum system required a complex hydraulic and vacuum system to be tapped into the towing vehicle and a vacuum booster to be fitted to the drawbar of the caravan. This system was complicated and prone to failure when the rubber components perished. While the engine bay of the average 1970s tow vehicle was relatively simple to add these components to, it would be a lot harder, if not impossible, to do now. you could replace with electric or just override brakes but the backing plates on the new brakes have a larger bolt on pattern to what yours will have so you will have to cut old Mount Plates off then weld new on this is a pain worth it for electric but for override brakes not so much if your hydraulic system is good mount the new master cylinder here is what you should need www.ebay.com.au/itm/610943-ALKO-TRAILER-BRAKE-HYDRAULIC-MASTER-CYLINDER-3-4-OVERRIDE-COUPLING-BOAT-/182465864891?hash=item2a7bd024bb:g:EOgAAOSwdGxXIupf you may find this set up second hand much cheaper have fun and stay safe |
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Post by Mustang on Mar 23, 2017 7:34:43 GMT 10
Link is broken, but there are plenty of trailer supply houses, that sell very reasonable kits that are electric.
Just don't skip on the cable size back to your plug.
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Post by 78466noM on Mar 23, 2017 8:25:25 GMT 10
Sorry about link it was just for the hydraulic master cylinder and mounting bracket if keeping hydraulic brakes changing the slave cylinders would be advisable and bearings while it is all apart I have done some reading and mine looks like it is going to be changed again to electric. ebay supercheap and all trailer parts suppliers will have all the bits you need and as mustang said if going for electric brakes wire size will make a big difference the bigger the better.
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Post by liberate on Mar 23, 2017 9:31:47 GMT 10
Welcome to the forum, my 1977 Franklin also is orage for the factory and I love it. Thanks Gitano, I have been following your son's threads with great interest. You two are doing a great job on all your restos! |
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Post by liberate on Mar 23, 2017 9:35:54 GMT 10
rattles is spot on about fridge if it is gas electric and works they are expensive to buy new and second hand it is the luck of the draw if you get a good one or a dud. The range-hood if you want to keep it may be able to be powder coated . I thought the vacuum over hydraulic was made illegal but after searching for two hours found this VACUUM-OPERATED This system died out for caravans in the late 1970s, and the most popular here in Australia was the system manufactured by PBR. The vacuum system required a complex hydraulic and vacuum system to be tapped into the towing vehicle and a vacuum booster to be fitted to the drawbar of the caravan. This system was complicated and prone to failure when the rubber components perished. While the engine bay of the average 1970s tow vehicle was relatively simple to add these components to, it would be a lot harder, if not impossible, to do now. you could replace with electric or just override brakes but the backing plates on the new brakes have a larger bolt on pattern to what yours will have so you will have to cut old Mount Plates off then weld new on this is a pain worth it for electric but for override brakes not so much if your hydraulic system is good mount the new master cylinder here is what you should need www.ebay.com.au/itm/610943-ALKO-TRAILER-BRAKE-HYDRAULIC-MASTER-CYLINDER-3-4-OVERRIDE-COUPLING-BOAT-/182465864891?hash=item2a7bd024bb:g:EOgAAOSwdGxXIupf you may find this set up second hand much cheaper have fun and stay safe Thanks 78466noM, I appreciate you taking the time to do the research for me! I think I am going to bail on the vacuum operated system as I don't really want to plumb into the tow vehicles vacuum supply. I will stick with the override brakes for now, and if they aren't up to the job, I will upgrade to electric. |
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Post by tasmillard on Mar 23, 2017 19:19:56 GMT 10
Honestly, the override brakes are pretty good for what they are. On the tandem, they work beautifully and it weighs more than the millard. But you gotta have the brake components in good order of course. Since using overrides i am as yet to justify electric brakes and prefer putting the money on other items like solar panels. Now saying that yes i would imagine electrics are better but others who have them can comment.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 19:49:06 GMT 10
Honestly, the override brakes are pretty good for what they are. On the tandem, they work beautifully and it weighs more than the millard. But you gotta have the brake components in good order of course. Since using overrides i am as yet to justify electric brakes and prefer putting the money on other items like solar panels. Now saying that yes i would imagine electrics are better but others who have them can comment. For the sake of a couple of hundred dollars spent on electric brakes there is NO comparison  Scenario down hill wet road and you need to make an emergency stop with over rides it will become a accident scene as to make the brakes on the van activate takes lots and the likely hood of the tow vehicle skidding then the van will skid bingo  with electrics you can slow the van without braking the tow unit if need be , scenario 2 stopped on a hill with over ride there is no braking on the van whatsoever with electrics the van can be held easily and if need be reversed under braked control DOWN the hill . We left the old coupling on ours when I changed to electric so if we need to tow with a car that does not have a brake controller fitted we just flip up the reversing lever and bingo over ride brakes .  When we went to Rathdowney we used the Honda which meant making use of the over ride function and compared to towing with the Zephyr and electric brakes it was awfull  , and this is even with the much bigger brakes used when we went to electric as they went from8" skinny over rides to wider 10" drums and pads . Our Viscount is a real light weight compared to yours we gross at just over 1T  |
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Post by snoops on Mar 23, 2017 19:49:15 GMT 10
Will be following this build with great interest.  Pity your Wife doesn't like the Orange - it looked great, but to each their own. |
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Post by snoops on Mar 23, 2017 19:53:05 GMT 10
Honestly, the override brakes are pretty good for what they are. On the tandem, they work beautifully and it weighs more than the millard. But you gotta have the brake components in good order of course. Since using overrides i am as yet to justify electric brakes and prefer putting the money on other items like solar panels. Now saying that yes i would imagine electrics are better but others who have them can comment. For the sake of a couple of hundred dollars spent on electric brakes there is NO comparison Scenario down hill wet road and you need to make an emergency stop with over rides it will become a accident scene as to make the brakes on the van activate takes lots and the likely hood of the tow vehicle skidding then the van will skid bingo with electrics you can slow the van without braking the tow unit if need be , scenario 2 stopped on a hill with over ride there is no braking on the van whatsoever with electrics the van can be held easily and if need be reversed under braked control DOWN the hill . We left the old coupling on ours when I changed to electric so if we need to tow with a car that does not have a brake controller fitted we just flip up the reversing lever and bingo over ride brakes . When we went to Rathdowney we used the Honda which meant making use of the over ride function and compared to towing with the Zephyr and electric brakes it was awfull , and this is even with the much bigger brakes used when we went to electric as they went from8" skinny over rides to wider 10" drums and pads . Our Viscount is a real light weight compared to yours we gross at just over 1T Yep, I've got to agree but over ride brakes do have their place. I went over ride as I use 3 different vehicles to tow the van, soon to be a forth and I know you can get controllers that you can move from vehicle to vehicle, it would mean wiring the many different vehciles to suit so I haven't bothered, but yes, far superior if you're tossing up between the 2. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 19:58:18 GMT 10
This is why we went the way we did the pi55y little over ride units were not good so the new 10" jobs alone were 100% improvement even without the electrics so we fitted the controller to the most often used tow vehicle the Z and kept the over ride for anything else although a controller is under 100 bucks so not a big investment in safety Remember also all this gear was brand new nary a mark on the linings and drums in fact I believe they are now fitted to a van owned by another member here |
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Post by 78466noM on Mar 24, 2017 8:08:22 GMT 10
the research wasn't a problem with out it I would have given you wrong information as I had read somewhere that the vacuum assisted brakes were made illegal found out not so but what you need in the tow vehicle would be extremely hard to find and after you found it if your tow vehicle is a modern type no room under bonnet and under car as from memory this system has a large vacuum tank and control's on drivers side but it was the mid eighties at a wrecking yard I spotted it in a old valiant or falcon I think.
I have decided after putting brand new 9inch over ride brakes to now go to 10inch electric due to the wife doing a lot of the towing duties set up right the electric brakes will help keep the brakes on the whole unit cooler on the bendy down hill roads were as the over ride brakes will put more strain on the tow vehicles brakes and has a tendency to jerk vehicle under heavy braking.
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Post by Rattles on Mar 24, 2017 9:08:27 GMT 10
Re Vacuum Brakes - the tapping into the Tugs hydraulic brake system is what was made illegal, thus the foot activated controller cannot be used thus the only method that is still legal is to use a manual lever to operate the Brakes. In the Mid 70's I had a Coronet Caravan and an Toyota FJ55 with the foot activated System (still have some of the Equipment) and the Vacuum-Hydraulic system worked well however as with a Car they required periodic maintenance, fluid change etc.
Rattles
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Post by liberate on Mar 24, 2017 10:04:16 GMT 10
Thanks for all the info guys. It has finally stopped raining for more than 5 mins and I got a chance to take a few pics of what I thought was the Vacuum brake (cylinder???) just to make sure that's what it is. Was I right, and if so can I just remove it and use the over run system? I can't use the handbrake because the cylinder is jammed not allowing me to pull the handle up! Sorry about the sideways photos, the upload software changed the orientation on me!    |
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Post by Rattles on Mar 24, 2017 10:19:59 GMT 10
Yes that is a Vacuum activator however without the Vacuum Hose and Coupling, you may find if you remove the blanking plug in the back of the cylinder the hand brake will work.
Please give us a Picture of the coupling.
From the back of the Coupling it appears is an over-ride coupling, If so it is only a matter of removing the the split pin and remove the pin to disconnect the activating plunger from the handbrake lever and remove the two nuts and the Cylinder should fall off, Then it is just a matter of removing the Coupling and give it a through clean, Polish the shaft then a good grease and it should be good for another 40 years.
Just remember when adjusting the Brake cables do not adjust them too tight, this is to allow for flexing of the suspension/A frame, also fine tune with the tension of the over-ride compression spring by adjusting the two nuts at the back of the coupling, to make the brakes to work to their best.
Rattles
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Scenario down hill wet road and you need to make an emergency stop with over rides it will become a accident scene as to make the brakes on the van activate takes lots and the likely hood of the tow vehicle skidding then the van will skid bingo 
with electrics you can slow the van without braking the tow unit if need be , scenario 2 stopped on a hill with over ride there is no braking on the van whatsoever with electrics the van can be held easily and if need be reversed under braked control DOWN the hill .
, and this is even with the much bigger brakes used when we went to electric as they went from8" skinny over rides to wider 10" drums and pads .
