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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 20:58:32 GMT 10
Hi Caravaners! New to the scene. I was recently looking at restoring any old caravan for a bit of a side project and happened across an ad on gumtree stating 'Guttered Caravan' for sale. After checking out the photos and doing some research I managed to narrow it down as a Viscount and thought it would be a great base to start. Offered the bloke $600 and he towed it to me in Adelaide all the way from Snowtown! The story goes that this family needed something to store their furniture in as they travelled interstate from Western Australia. So this thing has done some k's recently. Upon receiving the van I kept plugging into some research and found out that I may just have quite a rare caravan on my hands. From what I can tell it is a 70-73 Viscount Supreme? Looks like some of the chassis number has been welded over but what remains looks like; 519A. But half the 5 has been welded over with a chain. Anyway... I'll post some pics for you all to enjoy for now. Just gonna upload them to Imgur to save space on the forum. imgur.com/a/kHbYOSo it's pretty rough at the moment and a lot of work needs to be done and plenty of ideas running through my head. Had the idea of giving it the classic look on the outside but completely modern on the inside. That was before I found out more info about these vans. Now I just don't know and would love some opinions and ideas! It is a blank canvas and I'm virtually open to anything! Cheers, retrovanman |
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Post by pisces51 on Apr 20, 2016 21:37:05 GMT 10
G'day retrovanman, and welcome to the forum!  Yes, you've managed to get yourself a Viscount that isn't all that common.  I suspect the first digit in the chassis number is an 'F' rather than a '5'. The 'F' apparently relates to the fibreglass ends. Have a look inside that chain link that's welded over the digit, and see if you can see the stem of an 'F' rather than the curve of a '5'. From memory, we've only seen a couple of these types of Viscounts on the forum. A fairly detailed thread from 2009 for chassis number F5839A can be seen here: ditzygypsy.proboards.com/thread/2110/viscount-supreme-f5839a You'll also see some history information in that thread describing when these models were first introduced by Viscount. Keep in mind a lot of the conjecture about the age of F5839A in that thread was back in the days when we didn't have as much knowledge as we have now. Good luck with the work you plan on doing to the van, and be sure to keep us updated on your progress. cheers, Al. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 21:58:43 GMT 10
Ahh of course it's an F! Silly me...
In which case the chassis number is F19A.
Does that mean it may be quite an early edition? Possibly late 60's?
I should also say that it is an 18' caravan.
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Post by pisces51 on Apr 20, 2016 23:38:16 GMT 10
retrovanman, your chassis number is from near the very start of when Viscount shifted the "A" prefix from the front of the numbers to the end of the numbers, and restarted counting from 01 (or 001, 0001). Your chassis number is 19A in the series of Viscount numbers for this time period, and then you've got the 'F' prefix to signify the fibreglass ends.
We don't know for sure exactly when Viscount changed the numbering system to put the 'A' at the end of the numbers, but information we've collected over the years points to it happening in 1970 or 1971. It certainly wasn't in the 1960s.
It's a pity your van has been painted over, otherwise we'd be able to see the coloured painted design on the sides, and have a clearer picture of the approximate age of your van.
At this stage, I'd be plugging for a 1971 model, and if I'm wrong I'd only be out by a year (1970 being the other option).
cheers,
Al
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Post by Mustang on Apr 21, 2016 9:02:53 GMT 10
Welcome, with such a gem.
Our experienced member Al has given you a good reference .
I have never seen one in the flesh, so you will certainly have a point of difference.
Re images, you can post from a third party without taking room on the forum, members prefer an image rather than a link.
Keep us in the loop , you are already powering ahead.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 10:02:13 GMT 10
Cheers mustang. Those links were the only references I could find about this caravan. So information is pretty thin. Especially when the van is in the condition that it is. As for my plans; ultimately I want to restore this pearl back to its former glory and then sell it to hopefully make a profit. The original plan was to fit it out with a modern interior including shower/toilet, but would it be wiser to try and restore it back to original as possible? Which way would get me the most cash back in return? I would love to keep it once it is finished, but at this stage in my life I don't think I'll be able to  . Cheers |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 8:32:03 GMT 10
Most people who buy caravans are buying them to use them, not as a historic museum piece.
Taking it back to 100% period correct showroom condition may well cost more than rebuilding it with parts and materials commonly available today.
Therefore my suggestion is to restore it if that's what you want for yourself, but to rebuild the interior with an ensuite and more modern materials if you intend to sell it.
Whatever you do make sure it's water tight before you start hanging any interior cladding on it. Goodluck!
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Post by Mustang on Apr 22, 2016 8:44:08 GMT 10
Cheers mustang. Those links were the only references I could find about this caravan. So information is pretty thin. Especially when the van is in the condition that it is. As for my plans; ultimately I want to restore this pearl back to its former glory and then sell it to hopefully make a profit. The original plan was to fit it out with a modern interior including shower/toilet, but would it be wiser to try and restore it back to original as possible? Which way would get me the most cash back in return? I would love to keep it once it is finished, but at this stage in my life I don't think I'll be able to . Cheers Glad to hear that former glory thinking. When I bought our 77 Viscount there was so much damage I was going down the modern path, but after checking several caravan sales where owners had performed a beaut job on modernizing, they were only achieving little money to the effort that was invested. So we went down the former glory path, a lot more work but worth it in my opinion. You have to weigh up time (about a year) , monetary investment, capability, tool kit required (not expensive from a green shed). Take plenty of photos if you sell best to show warts and all. See links for historical images & info. V iscount history link courtesy Vintage vans Viscount link Classic forum) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 10:01:32 GMT 10
Well I'm a chippy by trade but aluminium is my speciality so I won't have any issues with the capability side of things. I think I'm going to go down the path of making the outside look as stock as possible with a period style interior but with all the modern day equipment. Shower/toilet etc.. Should be an interesting build. This weekends plan is to get a couple of mates around so we can tackle the chassis and grind it all back them coat it with a nice black coat of paint  . |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:32:59 GMT 10
I may not have been clear above. Add an ensuite - it's already gutted and most people want one.
Don't go chasing hard to find period correct veneer pannels or cabinetry hardware for the inside, just buy what's available today and do a nice job. The cost of finding rare old bits and pieces probably isn't worth it.
Don't make it a study in modernist design, what I mean by being modern is just buy what's cheap off the shelf
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:40:27 GMT 10
Yep. I understand what you mean. The chances of me finding an original interior/cupboards in good nick would be impossible. Already looked at getting timber laminate for the cupboards. Plus my father in law was a cabinet maker back in the 70's so he'll be able to help me out in building an interior that will look more legitimate.
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Post by kharde on Apr 23, 2016 22:05:23 GMT 10
It's good to see you have a dual axle van there. Gives you more play for weight ( especially if you're putting in a shower and toilet). I Had an engineer recently certify to upgrade my weight limits to 1800 kilograms with minimal frame modifications (my van was an18 foot, dual axle Viscount 74 model.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2016 8:47:38 GMT 10
Yes very happy it's dual axle. Gives me a lot more opportunities to do what I want with it.
Quick update...
Attacked the chassis with a wire wheel. Had a couple of mates come around to help out so was able to do most of it in one day. Next step I wanna throw some chassis stands under it and remove the whole suspension and wheels from underneath. Then I'll do a bit more grinding and chuck some paint on tomorrow.
On the topic of suspension, do you guys recommend a place to get new leaf springs and bushes at a decent price?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 17:21:04 GMT 10
Massive weekend with the wire wheel. Had a couple of mates help me out over the weekend to grind all the surface rust off the chassis. Pretty stoked with how it turned out. Next step; suspension overhaul!     |
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Post by Mustang on Apr 25, 2016 19:54:00 GMT 10
Wow all steam ahead, keep us posted , this is great gear for future restorers.
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Post by pisces51 on Apr 25, 2016 22:45:58 GMT 10
Very nice job on the chassis, retrovanman! You obviously pay a lot of attention to the detail of a job, so you'll no doubt end up with a superb caravan when this project is finished.  One thing we always advise people who have exposed the wiring in the walls is this - make sure there is a dedicated 12V earth wire to each and every stop/tail/indicator/clearance light on the van. The manufacturers would typically run an earth lead from the tow plug to the nearest clearance light, and then rely on the aluminium cladding to provide the earth to all the other lights (this was a cost-saving measure). Corrosion over the years leads to the cladding not being a very good conductor, resulting in the dreaded faulty light syndrome. So it is far better to have a proper earth lead to each light, to ensure these faults never happen. All the individual earth leads are spliced (soldered) into the one main earth lead that runs around the van and gets wired into the tow plug. I suspect the stop/tail/indicator lights on your van will have earth leads because the fibreglass end doesn't (obviously) conduct electricity, but the clearance lights on the aluminium cladding most likely won't have dedicated earth leads. Keep up the great work!! cheers, Al. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 23:00:00 GMT 10
Thanks Al... In my trade, attention to detail is very high in the list.
As for the wiring, I will be replacing all the wiring in the van considering it is 45 years old.
I'm not the greatest when it comes to electrics but will have a sparky mate of mine running me through step by step.
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Post by atefooterz on Apr 26, 2016 1:06:46 GMT 10
Will you do any chassis rail mods for batteries/ grey water tanks etc?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 9:09:51 GMT 10
Yea mate. There was already a greywater tank which I removed and my relocate. As for the batteries, I'm still not sure where I want to place them.
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Post by supreme78 on Apr 27, 2016 12:05:25 GMT 10
Well this is a decent renovation your doing.
I added 2 100ah batteries to my 1978 viscount supreme and put them as close to the axle as i could. this puts the weight close to the springs and axle and low to centre of gravity. One thing to be aware of is how quickly weight can be added to a caravan. I kept a close eye on weight and it was still way heavier than expected once finished. I also removed things like the old stove that weighed a ton as did the old fridge and Mattress. replacing them with new Appliances that were half of the weight.
I removed all 240v lighting and replaced it with led. i did add a couple extra 240v power points and a few 12v sockets for the tv and charging of electronic devices. I replaced the range hood with a 12v unit also. I removed the old cafe style seating and replaced it with 2 comfy chars. so much more comfy than those awful original seats.
good luck with the restoration.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 12:51:58 GMT 10
Well on the subject of weight, I'm looking at getting completely new tandem leaf springs off eBay. They come in 2.5, 3.0 and 3.5 ton variety. How much would a decked out 18ft caravan weigh by the time I add a shower, cassette toilet, kitchen, dual battery system etc...?
I'm leaning towards 2.5 but should I just bite the bullet and get 3.0 ton just in case?
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Post by kharde on Apr 28, 2016 7:09:10 GMT 10
It is definitely worth while to buy your electrical 12vwiring in bulk (eBay??? ). I spent a mint buying 5 meter rolls from Super Cheap Auto every second day (I used the cheapest gauge auto wiring and only experienced minimal voltage drop across the circuits since I invested heavily in modern 12v LED lighting. At a guess I needed 60-70m to write my whole van (including tail lights). Far more than I calculated for some reason.
You will also need heavier gauge wiring for your fridge though
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Post by kharde on Apr 28, 2016 7:12:01 GMT 10
Oh... On suspension... I just reused my existing four leaf springs. The caravan builders indicated the standard leaf springs I had were already overkill for the vans weight limit anyway.... Evidenced by the fact the engineer recertified an additional 400kg onto my van without touching the suspension
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Post by supreme78 on Apr 29, 2016 11:10:38 GMT 10
The biggest issue with axles and suspension is those horrible old round axles. Mine sheered off when the electric brakes were applied and as the stub does not actually go into the pipe but is simply welded to the face of the brake mounting plate its seriously under engineered. i almost lost my van in the accident. also replace the rims with decent rims designed to take the weight. don't use std car wheels as they are not made to carry the weight and the pressure on a wheel fitted to a tandem axle is quite extreme as turning puts lots of load on the rims.
Most 14" sunrasia rims are certified to 800kg + each. thats enough. most std car rims are around the 600kg. also worth pointing out don't use your old rims. they could be rusty inside and let go when loaded and used for extended periods.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 11:14:57 GMT 10
I'm definitely getting new leafs and shackles and welding them on. As for the axles, the ones that I removed are square, not round. Maybe they were replaced in the past?
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