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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2009 0:10:28 GMT 10
Hi everyone,
I just bought a 26ft Viscount Supreme that needs quite a bit of work.
When I was looking at it to buy I didnt have much time to find things like ID plates and so on. So I was wondering if anyone would know the approx weight of it? It does not have a fridge or stove at the moment. The drawbar is made of "c" channel, not rhs. It also seems to only have a cable brake system, would this be correct? And where might I find some info on the brake system as I have to check the brakes when I go to pick it up.
Looking forward to getting into it! (the forum) and the van, and I will post some pics as soon as I get it home.
Nasa62
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Post by millard1399 on Apr 9, 2009 9:56:59 GMT 10
G'day Nasa62, and welcome to the forum.
Another forum member, keelz, should be able to give you the good oil on approx weight, brake systems, etc.
As an avid historian, I can tell you that the chassis number on the drawbar will tell you the year of manufacture. Viscount used a numbering system where the first number is the year number. The Supreme model seems to have started in 1975, so a 1975 Supreme will have a chassis number 5XXXX, and a 1976 Viscount will have 6XXXX, and so on. In a number of newspaper advertisements I've seen, the dealers also put an 'A' in front of the chassis number to signify Ambassador, an 'S' to signify Supreme, and an 'R' to signify the Royal model. But I don't know whether Viscount put the letter in front of the chassis number on the drawbar. Keelz will be able to tell us whether his Viscount Supreme has an 'S' in front of the chassis number.
Stay tuned...
cheers,
Al.
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Post by keelz on Apr 9, 2009 21:59:45 GMT 10
Hi Nasa62
Welcome.
Ok, weights. I don't have any info close at hand but i can tell you my 18ft Viscount Supreme tandem axle van weighs in at about 1250kg tare weight before i put the fridge and a bed mattress back in it over the weigh bridge. So.......your 26ft i reckon you will be looking at quite a tare weight in the vicinity of say 2000+ kg upwards, even more. The only way to be certain is to take to a weigh bridge.
Bear in mind a lot of these sized vans were used as permanents or on-sites so the drawbar may have been removed and replaced, may not necessarily be the original drawbar on the chassis.
My '79 Supreme Deluxe chassis number starts with a 9. Doesn't have any prefix but as Al has pointed out there appears to be some info out there to suggest the prefix system to identify the models.
With that size van, good chance it has either old hydraulic brakes or electric brakes. Vans that big wouldn't work very well with override brakes (don't think they would have been legal even back when manufactured).
If there is a hydraulic master cylinder up near the drawbar this may identify it. Otherwise have a look under the van at the hubs and see if you have electric brake hubs fitted. You should see two wires feeding into the back of the hubs (possibly the front axle). The back axle might be just lazy/free wheeling hubs.
If you google electric trailer brakes you will see what you need to look for.
How long has the van been sitting idle?
Cheers
Keelz
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2009 12:13:08 GMT 10
Hi guys and thankyou for the info, I knew I came to the right place, much appreciated.
The van was moved about 18 months ago but I dont know how far. There is no signs of ever having had a hydraulic system on it such as old lines etc.
It has 3 hatches in the roof and an instant gas hot water system that is flued thru the roof. The hatches have leaked and water damage some of the ceiling panels but no big deal.
The real problem is that I couldn't care what condition it is in, I just love it!
The van is about 670 k's from me so we are going to pick it up next weekend. The wheel bearings have just been done as the guy I bought it off was about to move it to another place.
Waht we want to do is replace the cupboard outsides and keep the framing, and put in a new shower and toilet. Too ambitous you think?
Anyways I will let you know how it goes
BFN
nasa62
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2009 0:08:08 GMT 10
Well, the chassis number was found ;D and its F5893A. So according to the info it's a 1975. But whats the "F" for?  What do you think? nasa62 |
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Visco
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Post by Visco on Apr 26, 2009 10:53:17 GMT 10
Hey there I am really confused about the numbers on the drawbars of two Viscount Grand tourers. 1of them i previously owned, a poptop and the other i currently own a full van. both were labelled with a gas compliance stamp on the drawbar dated 1981 wich makes sense as the first of the G.T series started in that year and ran to 1985 before the second generation GT's were made(along with names such as Regency, GT Classic,Sea Breeze etc) both mine were early Grand tourers , the poptop had a chassis no of 99122 , i assumed the 1 ment 1981??but the full sized van (pictured in Hall of Fame) is 97863,no prefex in front. None of these numbers identify with a year that matches the gas compliance of 1981. No evidence of remanufactured drawbars, the current van been in the family for over 20 years. Could the draw bar been orig manufactured in 1979 or 1978 or even 77, as Viscount mass produced many in those days it may have taken a while before the frames had vans acually built on them??even though it was the supreme series being built at these times I have seen the same floor plan as mine in an earlier supreme, or is the number etched on when the van is completed meaning this may have been 1983?? As i said the van has been in the family20ish years, since 1988. QLD rego went by gas compliance so dated 1981. Any help please, thanx
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Post by millard1399 on Apr 27, 2009 9:44:54 GMT 10
Ah phooey!! Just when you think you've got the Viscount numbering system down pat, other examples come out of the woodwork to throw some doubt into the mix  All of the information I collected from the archives supported the belief that the numbering system was a 5-number system with the first number being the year. Now nasa62 has found a Supreme with the number F5893A. Doesn't fit, does it?  If the 'F' is definitely an 'F' and not a poorly written number, then I'll put my theory on hold pending further information. And is the van definitely a Supreme?? I saw on a number of occasions that the serial numbers had an 'A' for Ambassador in dealership advertisements in the archives. Are there any photos available of your van? I'd like to see a front end photo showing the Viscount logo close-up if possible (or even the shape of the 'shadow' where it used to be), and a side-on photo showing the painted 'stripe' on the outside wall. As far as the numbering system after 1979 goes, all bets are off with my theory. In the second half of 1979, Millard was about to go down the gurgler, and Viscount threw them a lifeline with a merger offer. The deal was that Viscount would take over the Millard name and any raw materials and unfinished stock. Everything else (factory, completed vans in dealerships, etc) would be sold off to pay the Millard creditors. Millard employees would be shifted to the Viscount factory to continue production of the Millard 80 series van ONLY. So I don't know what happened to the Viscount numbering system after the merger. By the end of the 1970s, the caravanning industry was so bad that only two of the top five survived to 1980, and Franklin was closed down in March 1981. That left only Viscount. What I also noticed in the archives was that there was only ONE dealer advertising Viscounts in Sydney in 1980. Good grief!!..only one dealer survived to carry on selling the No.1 caravan brand name! Things must have been extremely tough in the industry at that time. Consequently, caravan advertising in the late 1970s onwards was dramatically curtailed. Trying to find information about what vans looked like at the end of the '70s is like looking for the needle in the haystack. cheers, Al. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2009 10:13:55 GMT 10
Hey Al,
my van is at a friends workshop yard 20k's away and I'm going there today so I will get some decent pics of things.
Cheers,
Nick
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2009 20:29:34 GMT 10
Hey Al, Here she is in all her glory!     As you can see, the number is definitely correct. What do you make of it? It has fibreglass ends on it. I will upload some inside shots later. Cheers, Nick |
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Post by bobt on Apr 27, 2009 22:20:00 GMT 10
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Post by atouchofglass on Apr 28, 2009 6:30:14 GMT 10
Now that's a van  Are you going to sell tickets to the roller skate rink inside? Mirror ball in the middle and use it as a dance floor on weekends? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If you put the kitchen up one end and the bedroom up the other your missus would be real snaky with you ... She'd still think she's at home in a house!!!!!!!!!!! Interior shots would be great..... do hope you have enough film ;D ;D ;D ;D Cheers Atog the jealous |
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Post by millard1399 on Apr 28, 2009 17:39:48 GMT 10
By Jingoes, Nick!!...I didn't expect you to come back with THAT!! What's going on here??!! Who made that 'Road Palace'?? ...Viscount, eh? Whipping out my magnifying glass and giving your pictures a very, very close examination, this is what I've discovered... ...That you take a very good photo...  Ever thought of becoming a professional photographer?? But enough with the humour, Nick!...let's get serious about that monstrous, lovely, old Viscount. I must admit it threw me a bit. I hadn't seen one as big as that before, and I didn't think the Supreme came in as early as yours did. Let's make up a story about your van, and see if anybody has anything else to add to it... In 1968, Viscount released a new model with fibreglass ends...  This model was updated in 1970. In mid-1971, Viscount released a new model called the "Consort" which only had a fibreglass "nose roll" above the front and rear windows. Same boxy-looking shape as yours, but with a boxy-shape aluminium clad lower front section. What the archives forgot to tell me at the time was that Viscount also introduced the Supreme model in mid-1971. And they also forgot to tell me that the Supreme was given the same full fibreglass treatment as the previous 1968 model. The funny thing about Viscount was that they never spent much money on newspaper advertising, so it's difficult to find information about any of their vans. Anyway, so far at least we now know your van is after mid-1971. Next, the painted side stripe. Here is a Viscount advert from Sept 1973...  ...and a caravan showing that stripe...  In 1974 the stripe was changed to a single stripe, like the first half of your van, all the way along the side. So now we can say your van is before 1974. Your van also doesn't have the 'four seasons' hatches, which was launched onto the caravan industry in October 1974. Finally, that d@mn chassis number. Looks like my theory of Viscount chassis numbers doesn't hold up for the years 1970 71 72 and 73. It does for 1974 upwards, so Viscount must have changed their system at the start of 1974. I have a newspaper notice for a stolen 1971 Viscount which had the chassis number of 3953A, so I still have to crack the Viscount code for the early years. All I can guess about your chassis number is that the 'F' might mean 'fibreglass'. The numbers must relate to something, but I dunno what yet. And the 'A' at the end has gotta mean something as well (it was on the 1971 stolen one too). Waaaay back in 1960, I found a dealer's advertisement that stated Viscount had factories in Sydney, Melbourne, and Adelaide. I thought that was strange because I know Viscount had shifted from Adelaide and set up in Sydney in 1958. I've always been under the impression that Sydney was the only Viscount factory operating over the years, but maybe I'm mistaken. Anyway, the purpose of all that was to ponder whether the last 'A' in the chassis number might mean Adelaide, IF in fact there was an Adelaide factory. Obviously still lots more for us to learn. In summary, your van fits in with Viscount caravans from around the 1973 mark. Certainly one of the more unique Viscounts you'll find around the place. ;D ;D cheers, Al. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 22:05:10 GMT 10
Gday Nick You have one beaut van there I to am interested in your tow car or is it small truck? ?? Please more photo's of this lovely lady  Cheers Bazz |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 7:56:23 GMT 10
Hi Nasa62,
That is one helluva find! We're green with envy. The external condition looks too good to be true. Was it shedded for some time?
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Post by kiwijim on Apr 29, 2009 8:10:08 GMT 10
G'Day Nick, That's a "Ripper" Viscount you have there, ;D Congrats on a great find, ;D ;D ;D Hopefully it won't be long before you allow us all to have a look at the interior layout...........heaps of photos ........please.  I have only ever seen one other Viscount of the same period as yours ( with Fibreglass ends) that was many years ago here in the West and then it was only a 16 footer, I noticed the rear corner wrap-around windows seem to be in very good condition for it's year, I wonder if they have been replaced, or has the van been under cover for much of it's life Just to add a bit more confusion to the chassis number..... Some Hire Companies, such as Ours have welded an extra letter to the front of the Chassis number......... F....... Fleet hire C...... Commercial Hire T....... Touring Hire A....... Accommodation Hire A great find Nick, "good on Ya " kiwijim  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2009 19:04:30 GMT 10
Hi all, Thanks you guys for the encouraging comments and Al for your very interesting history account  Unfortunately the inside is not so good due to some water damage (which have been easily repaired but got neglected) and some Dodgy Bros handywork. Despite that she is certainly repairable, in fact both meself and herself have said, almost in union, and I qoute: " I could live in this van like it is if I had to!" Our plan though is to actually live in it, permanently. We have got out of the housing market (too expensive) and because there's only the 2 of us we decided to downsize, spend less time working and more time doing the things we enjoy. What? Don't be disgusting and myob, thats private info The vans been sitting out in the goldfields in W.A for some years, uncovered and when I asked the guy I bought it off to check the wheel hub size for new brake shoes, he took the hub off and there was nothing inside to even fit new shoes to! So we had a new axle made and fitted with electric brakes and we took it up there, fitted the axle, wired up the brakes and we were off, much to the help of Martins Trailer parts in Bayswater(this is not an ad!) and to Dave who sold me the van because he did most of the work and is an auto sparky to boot! Anyway, she towed home beautifully behind the '89 Diahatsu Charade- thank goodness it's the 1.3L model, with injection! Yeh, right! We actually had a friend lend us his Ford F250 v8 turbo six squillion litre ute and there was no dramas at all. I will get to some interior shots as soon as I can between work an all, Cheers, Nick. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2009 0:18:18 GMT 10
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Visco
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Post by Visco on Aug 17, 2009 16:56:34 GMT 10
Hi there I think I may have an idea of what part of the Viscount Chassis codes became towards the end of the 70's or early eightys when they became a series of obscure numbers
As previously posted i am a proud owner of a much loved family Van being A Grand tourer (almost classic) from 1981(according to gas compliance)
My chassis no is 97863 I have also discovered in some pic's taken many years ago of the same van as mine,Different colours but, is identical floorplan and also Grand tourer has a Chassis no of 99763 .
The other caravan would be slightly newer as mine has the orig carpets stil a brown berber carried over from earlier Supremes the other van has more of a cut'n loop pile carpet in softer tan toned colour it also included a secound 15 v outlet and center skylight hatch as aprovision for roof Air.
My guess is that as the last two didgets of the Chassis no being the same could say that "63" is the chassis used for that particular floorplan as Viscount apearantly made 78 models from 11ft to27 ft incuding poptops according to a copy i have of Caravan Buyers Manual edition 1981 . My understanding is at this time Viscount also owned and Manufactured Millard, and cloned most of the Grand tourer off the series 80. untill the Grand tourer later cloned the Millard series 2000/Voyager/Columbia of the middish 80's.
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Post by millard1399 on Aug 17, 2009 20:13:25 GMT 10
Hi Visco, I guess we'll only know the real Viscount history "truth" by continuing to collect as much information as possible, including what you've told us here. It's quite possible the numbering system at the end of the 1970s related to floor layouts. One thing I found in researching the Viscount history is that information can be conflicting and confusing. For a company that was No.1 in Oz, they certainly didn't spend a lot of money on corporate advertising, so it's difficult to find precise info about their models over the years. I see in your other post that you believe the Grand Tourer first started in 1981. Here's a story to confuse that history even more... I bought a caravan mattress on ebay a few weeks back. Had to go and pick it up from a farm. Was chatting with the farmer about old caravans, and he invited me into one of the farm sheds to look at his old van. It was a Viscount "Grand Tourer" with the chassis number of S65944A. Now, by my reckoning, that chassis number stood for Supreme / 1976 / 5944th chassis. Unfortunately I didn't have my camera with me, but the farmer's van looked a lot like a single-wheel version of keelz's '79 Supreme - same colour stripe...  So if the chassis number on the farmer's van was genuinely from 1976, then it suggests the Grand Tourer model was available a lot earlier than we thought. Funnily enough, as murky as the Viscount history information is, it's a lot clearer than the history of other brands I've researched! cheers, Al. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2009 18:19:22 GMT 10
Hi there, Another newbie here. I live in Newcastle and have a 1974 Viscount Royal. I will upload some pics tomorrow. I also want to do some improvements as a previous owner did some "improvements" of her own so to speak, apparently, so I want to get her back to as close to standard as possible, and do my improvements while she is gutted. Tow vehicle is a 1990 VN Toyota Lexcen V6 auto. I used to live in this old girl when I was working in Sydney and towed her back to Newcastle when I found a job up here. She does have a couple of leaks but they can be fixed. She's served me well and I want to hang onto her because I like the classic style with the wraparound front and rear windows. Mine has 2 roof hatches and I guess she'd be a 16 footer. She has a single axle and the original side marker lights, I just retinted them but had to fit new lights to the rear, the ones that were there were too far gone. Mine has the same colour limish green side stripe as the one that millard1399 took the photo of in the farmer's shed. Cheers, Ross.
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Post by malrv1 on Sept 1, 2009 18:33:37 GMT 10
I thought I would share this photo with you. This is us at the devils Marbles NT in 1982. We had left Alice Springs and were heading north and down the west coast. We ended up coming back to Alice via the Gunbarrel Highway and Giles weather station. The road in those days was pretty remote. The caravan held up quite well we broke a u bolt near Giles and broke a stub axle on the old Olgas road within sight of Ayers Rock. After limping into the old Ayers Rock Chalet I welded up the axle and it was still OK when we sold the van a few years later. Viscounts are strong. The Toyota FJ55 had a 318 Chrysler V8 and auto transmission. The best part of the old Tojo! We lived it the van with our two kids until we built our house and then sold the Viscount to buy our Franklin pop top which we still have.   Here we are on the Oodnadatta Track after the torque converter cracked. I pulled the transmission out and hitched a ride to a nearby station, welded up the crack and refitted the transmission. I had to strain the auto fluid through some panty hose as it was full of flies. I had left it in a open container and I did not have any more. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 16:22:00 GMT 10
Hey Al, Here she is in all her glory! As you can see, the number is definitely correct. What do you make of it? It has fibreglass ends on it. I will upload some inside shots later. Cheers, Nick I think I've got a 20' [?] version of this one; chassis # 407A - dual-axle cf. sites.google.com/site/gothg400/  Attachments:
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Post by jody on Jun 8, 2016 13:41:13 GMT 10
I've a viscount 18ft with fiberglass ends im also finding it hard to find information
I don't know how to post pics sorry or I'd show you
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Post by Mustang on Jun 8, 2016 16:37:26 GMT 10
I've a viscount 18ft with fiberglass ends im also finding it hard to find information I don't know how to post pics sorry or I'd show you Try this, Photobucket link |
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