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Post by doublechevron on Sept 30, 2015 14:35:07 GMT 10
Hi Guys, has anyone retro-fitted some decent lighting in place of the feeble little 12volt incandescent globes in there old caravans ... I have no intention of upgrading the caravan lighting to 12volts. But having usable 12volt lighting for free camping using the existing caravan lighting would be great. I was thinking of setup up something like these around the standard 240globe in the existing light housing www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-x-G4-24-SMD-3528-LED-Light-Bulb-Globe-Lamp-12v-Caravan-Camper-3000K-WARM-WHITE-/301637850657?hash=item463b045621Has anyone else done anything similar? I don't want to convert to 12volt lighting, as then I'd need to fit batteries, 240V AC -> 12volt dc inverters for 12volt DC when plugged into 240volts. Which would get expensive quickly  seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by planner on Sept 30, 2015 16:13:47 GMT 10
Has anyone else done anything similar? I don't want to convert to 12volt lighting, as then I'd need to fit batteries, 240V AC -> 12volt dc inverters for 12volt DC when plugged into 240volts. Which would get expensive quickly DoubleChevron I made the decision early in the reno to go down the 12v path, our 3 way fridge had carked it. I bought an upright compressor fridge, decent battery and charger (best money spent on van). I replaced the 12v globes with direct replacement LED's similar to these I bought mine locally so I paid a bit (quite a lot) more than the fleabay price, but I'm still really happy with the result. Install was really simple, about 60sec per light, then I had to find the lighting connection back to the trailer light loom and redirect to the battery, but you won't need to do this if not installing batteries. I assume the new project is fitted with 12v & 240v globes in the fittings. Otherwise it could get complicated and expensive. Planner |
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Post by doublechevron on Sept 30, 2015 16:41:52 GMT 10
Yeah, it's wired for both 12 and 240volts inside the same light housing (like most caravans of it's era). The 2 way fridge works well. I already have 6 batteries to upkeep, no-way do I want another to upkeep on the caravan ( 5 x cars, 1 x mower).
I've put a 2nd battery in the tug that can run the caravan (that I'll just pull from one of the other cars when we use the caravan). I'm going to wire the caravan with an anderson plug, and put a 12volt power point for TV etc.
seeya,
Shane L.
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Post by planner on Oct 1, 2015 8:53:06 GMT 10
Yeah, it's wired for both 12 and 240volts inside the same light housing (like most caravans of it's era). The 2 way fridge works well. I already have 6 batteries to upkeep, no-way do I want another to upkeep on the caravan ( 5 x cars, 1 x mower). I've put a 2nd battery in the tug that can run the caravan (that I'll just pull from one of the other cars when we use the caravan). I'm going to wire the caravan with an anderson plug, and put a 12volt power point for TV etc. seeya, Shane L. Should be an easy job then, replace globes with LED's, find where lighting wire joins into trailer plug loom (mine was in the cupboard under the sink, just aft of the fridge) and redirect to anderson plug. Careful when you buy the globes, most older vans use a now hard to find bayonet BA15D. You'll find that SORTACHEAP and other auto shops will stock BA15S, which wont fit/work. Also make sure they're 12v, for some reason Aldi were selling 240v versions of this size. Never worked out what runs these, but if I ever do I've got 4 spare globes  Hope this helps. Planner. |
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Post by doublechevron on Oct 1, 2015 9:39:45 GMT 10
Yeah, it's wired for both 12 and 240volts inside the same light housing (like most caravans of it's era). The 2 way fridge works well. I already have 6 batteries to upkeep, no-way do I want another to upkeep on the caravan ( 5 x cars, 1 x mower). I've put a 2nd battery in the tug that can run the caravan (that I'll just pull from one of the other cars when we use the caravan). I'm going to wire the caravan with an anderson plug, and put a 12volt power point for TV etc. seeya, Shane L. Should be an easy job then, replace globes with LED's, find where lighting wire joins into trailer plug loom (mine was in the cupboard under the sink, just aft of the fridge) and redirect to anderson plug. Careful when you buy the globes, most older vans use a now hard to find bayonet BA15D. You'll find that SORTACHEAP and other auto shops will stock BA15S, which wont fit/work. Also make sure they're 12v, for some reason Aldi were selling 240v versions of this size. Never worked out what runs these, but if I ever do I've got 4 spare globes Hope this helps. Planner. Oh .. globes, it's just 12volts DC, I was going to simply remove the wiring from the existing light housing and fit a big useful LED globe in there The old bayonet housing can stay in position unused (if someone wants to put it back to standard in the future, they can just screw the wires back to the bayonet housing!). seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by tim on Oct 2, 2015 9:48:44 GMT 10
LED is much better than incandescent for light output per watt used. I'm in the process of converting all of the lights in our modern to LED. Power consumption will be approximately 1/8th of what it used to be. That matters to me because we spend most of our time off mains power. If you are on mains then the gains are less. If you do use mains pretty much exclusively there's no reason why you couldn't run 12V off a transformer, rather than a battery. They are much cheaper than batteries and no maintenance.
There are a couple of gotchas with LED though. Many of the cheap LED inserts and globe replacements don't put out as much light as they claim, so I've found that its best to buy one to test before committing to lots of them. Also bear in mind that unlike incandescent globes LEDs they are polarity sensitive. A lot of the globe replacement style ones have diode bridges in them that take care of the problem, but the flat panel type inserts usually have a red and a black wire, so you have to ensure you get them the right way round.
I reckon those disk shaped inserts would be worth a try. Depending on the light fittings you have there are also some ring shaped ones that might go round the standard light globe neatly and give you a more even spread of light.
Just incidentally for people with the BA15S and BA15D type of fittings, there are LED panels that have the correct type of bayonet on the end of a short wire so no changes to the fittings are needed.
Tim
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Post by atouchofglass on Oct 2, 2015 17:01:35 GMT 10
Threw a few led deck lights into the van when it was renovated.   We use them if we want to get up in the night and just as low lighting. But of course the led's these days would be plenty strong enough for normal lighting. If I was to do it again, I'd definitely go LED lights over 240V Cheers Atog |
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Post by snoops on Oct 7, 2015 18:36:03 GMT 10
I know you don't want to do an inverter, but I thought I'd add in a bit on how I did mine in case someone looks this up in the future. My van was never wired for 12 volts - the fittings are all the dual socket fittings of the day, but none have ever been wired, and this was confirmed when I replaced some of the paneling - no wires have ever been run for any DC apart from the exterior lighting - tail lights and clearance lights. So, I run everything at 240 volts - through an inverter when away camping, and I have a changeover switch in the switchboard to flick between the inverter supply and the mains when I'm plugged in at home. The inverter is a top quality Australian built unit - a 600 watt Selectronic unit that goes to sleep when the load drops to below 4 watts, so it doesn't waste energy doing nothing like cheaper units. All globes now have warm white Phillips 5 watt LED globes installed so the current draw is very low, even with all the lights running. I have 2 x 100AH Full River deep cycle batteries in the van - soon to be 1 as I have too much capacity as it is. These are charged by the car when driving and kept topped up by a gloat charger at home while on the mains. I haven't even needed my solar panel with this setup - even when parked up in one spot for 4 nights in a row. This setup also allows me to run a small 240 volt TV, but cheap 12 volt ones are just as easy to get now. I can also just take my standard phone chargers with me to keep the phone charged. All the comforts of home. Oh, a quick note on safety - what I have described with the inverter running through a change over switch can be potentially dangerous if not done properly and the system is not correctly understood. Not all inverters are suitable for this kind of setup. I'm a Sparky by trade and I specialise in generator and other isolated supplies so if you don't understand how this needs to be done safely and legally, then please don't attempt it - get an Electrician who understands this (not all will) to sort it. |
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Post by doublechevron on Oct 8, 2015 13:33:16 GMT 10
I know you don't want to do an inverter, but I thought I'd add in a bit on how I did mine in case someone looks this up in the future. My van was never wired for 12 volts - the fittings are all the dual socket fittings of the day, but none have ever been wired, and this was confirmed when I replaced some of the paneling - no wires have ever been run for any DC apart from the exterior lighting - tail lights and clearance lights. So, I run everything at 240 volts - through an inverter when away camping, and I have a changeover switch in the switchboard to flick between the inverter supply and the mains when I'm plugged in at home. The inverter is a top quality Australian built unit - a 600 watt Selectronic unit that goes to sleep when the load drops to below 4 watts, so it doesn't waste energy doing nothing like cheaper units. All globes now have warm white Phillips 5 watt LED globes installed so the current draw is very low, even with all the lights running. I have 2 x 100AH Full River deep cycle batteries in the van - soon to be 1 as I have too much capacity as it is. These are charged by the car when driving and kept topped up by a gloat charger at home while on the mains. I haven't even needed my solar panel with this setup - even when parked up in one spot for 4 nights in a row. This setup also allows me to run a small 240 volt TV, but cheap 12 volt ones are just as easy to get now. I can also just take my standard phone chargers with me to keep the phone charged. All the comforts of home. Oh, a quick note on safety - what I have described with the inverter running through a change over switch can be potentially dangerous if not done properly and the system is not correctly understood. Not all inverters are suitable for this kind of setup. I'm a Sparky by trade and I specialise in generator and other isolated supplies so if you don't understand how this needs to be done safely and legally, then please don't attempt it - get an Electrician who understands this (not all will) to sort it. Oh I get it, you left the caravan 240volts .. but run an inverter to step up to 240volts A/C. I could do this I guess ( I hope it has overload cutout incase you plug the kettle in by accident  ). I'll think about it for a while. I'm not too fussed about power .... I understand just enough .... to make a mess of things  (Is there anything worse than somoene that knows just enough to bugger everything up  ). I did a double diploma quite a few years ago now in electrical systems/electronics. It's all fun right ? I didn't read anything you wrote properly, I thought you were saying you converted to 12volts and was using a step down inverter ( from 240V AC -> 12V DC) to run all the 12volt stuff inside when plugged into 240 seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by snoops on Oct 9, 2015 7:21:40 GMT 10
Yep, that's right - it runs at 240 the whole time. You need a good (read expensive) inverter to do this properly - and safely though. The Selectronic unit I have is rated for 600w continuous, but up to 1200w for 5 minutes, and can peak at nearly 2000w. Kettles and toasters are out, but I use the stove to boil water and the grill to make toast, so it's really only running the lights, and the microwave occasionally - but I think I'm going to pull that out to save space and weight anyway. I'll pop up one day and say hi - I've been meaning to so I can drool over your Citroens.... |
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Post by doublechevron on Oct 9, 2015 8:56:12 GMT 10
Yep, that's right - it runs at 240 the whole time. You need a good (read expensive) inverter to do this properly - and safely though. The Selectronic unit I have is rated for 600w continuous, but up to 1200w for 5 minutes, and can peak at nearly 2000w. Kettles and toasters are out, but I use the stove to boil water and the grill to make toast, so it's really only running the lights, and the microwave occasionally - but I think I'm going to pull that out to save space and weight anyway. I'll pop up one day and say hi - I've been meaning to so I can drool over your Citroens.... I looked at them on ebay a few months back. By the time I purchased a big battery or two, wired it all in, fitted a quality inverter. I figured I could buy one of these: sydneytools.com.au/gensafe-ns105345-2kva-4-stroke-petrol-powered-inverter-silent-generatorand just use a 2nd battery in the car to run the 12volt lighting and tv of a night. there only 52dB running light loads. You could pack a big chunky battery charger to re-charge your car batteries when you use it during the day. It could also run a small split system if I fitted one (you'd just have to make sure it's an inverter with soft start, which most are these days). I'm trying to figure out the cheapest most usable way of doing this stuff (as opposed to the best way). If we purchased a quality generator we could sell it when we get back from the trip away. (it's not like we can go away for more than a week at a time for the next decade or two after the 3month trip either way). Young kids generally cause that .... and working full time. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by tedalley on Oct 10, 2015 19:05:07 GMT 10
Shane Hi.
The only problem I can see is that unless you have the generator running while driving from one campsite to the next one your 2way fridge wont be working.
To do this you will have to have the generator running on your rear bumper.
Ted
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Post by doublechevron on Oct 10, 2015 21:40:15 GMT 10
Shane Hi. The only problem I can see is that unless you have the generator running while driving from one campsite to the next one your 2way fridge wont be working. To do this you will have to have the generator running on your rear bumper. Ted I'd only run the generator when needed at times that wouldn't p!$$ people off .... even though it would be the quietest one I could find. The fridge will run on gas .......... seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by snoops on Oct 11, 2015 9:18:57 GMT 10
Another benefit of the inverter is that the 2 way fridge runs on 240 volts while travelling, with a supply running from the cars battery through an anderson plug to keep everything fully charged. I know a lot run their fridges on gas while driving without issue, but I'm not comfortable doing that.
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Post by Mustang on Oct 11, 2015 18:10:15 GMT 10
Another benefit of the inverter is that the 2 way fridge runs on 240 volts while travelling, with a supply running from the cars battery through an anderson plug to keep everything fully charged. I know a lot run their fridges on gas while driving without issue, but I'm not comfortable doing that. Amazing someone would run their fridge on gas while travelling  EDIT: I spoke with an x-gasfitter, he suggested running on gas while travelling, while not recommended , there is nothing wrong with it!! If your pilot goes out the gas will stop? Puts a new slant on the belief. |
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Post by snoops on Oct 11, 2015 20:07:41 GMT 10
Another benefit of the inverter is that the 2 way fridge runs on 240 volts while travelling, with a supply running from the cars battery through an anderson plug to keep everything fully charged. I know a lot run their fridges on gas while driving without issue, but I'm not comfortable doing that. Amazing someone would run their fridge on gas while travelling My Inlaws do, and have done for 30 years. I have spoken to others that do too. In reality, I'm not sure how dangerous it really is - how many vans catch fire each year while being towed? None that I know of, but I have no need to, and I have no real desire to start. |
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Post by doublechevron on Oct 12, 2015 9:10:58 GMT 10
Wow, how many hours a day are you guys travelling for Just put some freezer packs in the freezer overnight and leave the fridge off for the couple of hours you travel I've had 3way fridges in the past... 12volts isn't much better than switching them off while you travel seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by snoops on Oct 12, 2015 16:07:21 GMT 10
Depends, most trips are under 3 hours but some have been more than double that. Biggest problem with the freezer pack idea is that the beer doesn't stay cold enough, and that's usually the first thing I grab when I stop for the day. Yeah, the 12 volts on the 3 ways is a bit sad, but the 240 on my 2 way works great, so it's icy cold beers for me... |
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Post by planner on Oct 13, 2015 7:56:31 GMT 10
Yeah, the 12 volts on the 3 ways is a bit sad, but the 240 on my 2 way works great, so it's icy cold beers for me... I've owned a couple of 3 way fridges, the chescold still gets used occasionally. They've all worked great on 12v, in fact the chescold will freeze beer when running on 12v. I think the trick is to use heavy cabling. I don't think I could/would run gas while travelling, It just wouldn't feel right. Planner |
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Post by 78466noM on May 23, 2016 9:01:55 GMT 10
I know you don't want to do an inverter, but I thought I'd add in a bit on how I did mine in case someone looks this up in the future. My van was never wired for 12 volts - the fittings are all the dual socket fittings of the day, but none have ever been wired, and this was confirmed when I replaced some of the paneling - no wires have ever been run for any DC apart from the exterior lighting - tail lights and clearance lights. So, I run everything at 240 volts - through an inverter when away camping, and I have a changeover switch in the switchboard to flick between the inverter supply and the mains when I'm plugged in at home. The inverter is a top quality Australian built unit - a 600 watt Selectronic unit that goes to sleep when the load drops to below 4 watts, so it doesn't waste energy doing nothing like cheaper units. All globes now have warm white Phillips 5 watt LED globes installed so the current draw is very low, even with all the lights running. I have 2 x 100AH Full River deep cycle batteries in the van - soon to be 1 as I have too much capacity as it is. These are charged by the car when driving and kept topped up by a gloat charger at home while on the mains. I haven't even needed my solar panel with this setup - even when parked up in one spot for 4 nights in a row. This setup also allows me to run a small 240 volt TV, but cheap 12 volt ones are just as easy to get now. I can also just take my standard phone chargers with me to keep the phone charged. All the comforts of home. Oh, a quick note on safety - what I have described with the inverter running through a change over switch can be potentially dangerous if not done properly and the system is not correctly understood. Not all inverters are suitable for this kind of setup. I'm a Sparky by trade and I specialise in generator and other isolated supplies so if you don't understand how this needs to be done safely and legally, then please don't attempt it - get an Electrician who understands this (not all will) to sort it. I hope this is the right way to do this but hi snoops I have been reading and checking a lot of things so far you seem to be the only one to put this type of thing into plain English. Here goes originally after spending hours looking up we were going to use a 240volt bar fridge run though the inverter purchased said items 1700watt pure sine wave inverter and fridge . Didn't think of the earth that is needed to trip safety switches and with a fault may make car and van live. so now have on order a 12volt fridge . My question if you read this is i plan now is to run inverter to 15amp outlet next to the 15amp inlet and have a steel spike to hammer into ground with earth wire attached for the times we go and free camp.Inverter is now way overkill with 240volt led lighting at about 26watt then all it does is charge laptops and phones |
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Post by snoops on May 26, 2016 22:16:17 GMT 10
If you have the right inverter wired correctly, no earth stake is required as fault currents end up back at the inverter and an RCD will function correctly. Electricity takes the path of least resistance, so it will prefer to run back through an earth wire to the inverter rather than through the cladding or chassis of the van. If your inverter doesn't have an earth - a lot don't unfortunately - then it is potentially very dangerous to use it in a caravan regardless of driving an earth or not, but an earth stake would be better than nothing. What brand and model of inverter do you have? Anything of EBay or other cheap unit will not be suitable. A half decent inverter that size would start at $800 - my 600 watt unit (top shelf stuff) retails for around $1300 and weighs in at around 5Kg, but that is waaay overkill and is just the sort of thing OCD Electricians like myself run out and buy... I would seriously look at getting an Electrician to check out what you're planning as there are too many variables to cover completely here. |
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Post by 78466noM on May 27, 2016 11:46:56 GMT 10
It is a cheap one from China Giandel is the brand it has low voltage alarm , under voltage protection , over voltage protection , overload protection and thermal protection.Weighs approx 5 to 6kg
I am still looking for an electrician to do the wiring but will find one who knows what he is doing and ask all the questions.
I will have this one checked out and thanks for the info every little bit helps and i don't want to skip on safety.
have fun
Bruce
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Post by atefooterz on May 27, 2016 15:49:33 GMT 10
From my days of instaling power plant set ups (exchange ups) the main issue always seems to be architecture, rather than price. Back in 2000-2001 i was on a project where three inverters failed ( $14,000 ea back then) Turns out the 110V chaps had issues understanding Aussie peak power where up to 260V can occur, they mod their 110V based set ups to international 220- 240V standard use. Sadly for the supplier we had independant metering and readouts that showed mains peak did not exceed 247V, that even the elecrical supplier was amazed at, as their sales spiel was based that up to 260V could be expected at times. The supplier used their UK arm to re design the original USA stuff and surprize reliability with the new units!
These 240V set ups were only used as the supplier already had big issues with our 415V three phase, compared to their native phase power supplies.
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Post by glennv on May 27, 2016 21:27:47 GMT 10
I know a lot run their fridges on gas while driving without issue, but I'm not comfortable doing that. Amazing someone would run their fridge on gas while travelling EDIT: I spoke with an x-gasfitter, he suggested running on gas while travelling, while not recommended , there is nothing wrong with it!! If your pilot goes out the gas will stop? Puts a new slant on the belief. My father ran the fridge in his van (which he bequeathed to me a few years back) on gas for 30 odd years. If the pilot goes out, yes - the gas stops. But when it doesn't go out, and you pull into a petrol station to refuel ......... When I started towing the van I had the "ahh haa" moment about that ... Very quickly put in a house battery and inverter to run the fridge while in motion. Feel much happier refuelling these days. I purchased some BA15D LED replacements from Jaycar to see how they would function ... And as a quick and easy alternative they are just fantastic. |
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Post by kiwijim on May 28, 2016 3:18:38 GMT 10
For those Members who may not know, It is illegal to travel with a gas fridge operating in a caravan,
One reason is that, you have a naked flame burning in the rear of the fridge, should you enter a fuel station and go to refuel, just think of what could happen if this flame in your fridge should ignite the fuel vapours from the pump !!!
This has happened in the past, one service station was destroyed in the N.T. some years back by this very act,
I personally have friends who had their Motor Home badly burnt and the Wife hospitalised through the wife tipping a can of fuel into the fuel tank which was within a metre of the fridge vent where they had the gas fridge burner going at the time.
It's far safer to turn off all gas at the bottle before you travel, a fridge with a good seal should hold it's temperature for a good few hours after turning off.
I always do this and have never lost any food in all the years of travel, even in the high temps of the N/W.
If one is worried about the fridge de-frosting, then run it on 12v battery supply while traveling, but remember the 12v element is only to maintain the fridge temp at it's present level, it will use a good amount of power and can quickly flatten a battery if left on, without the motor running.
Happy Camping K.J.
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). I'll think about it for a while. I'm not too fussed about power .... I understand just enough .... to make a mess of things 
(Is there anything worse than somoene that knows just enough to bugger everything up 
). I did a double diploma quite a few years ago now in electrical systems/electronics.
