|
|
Post by mickmarsh on Jan 17, 2016 13:04:51 GMT 10
I'm asking on behalf of a friend:
"A thread to learn what vans are constructed from to help when I'm looking for a van.
Thoughts are an older pop top in good condition that can be upgraded.
Basically,I would like to know which ones use alloy frames VS wooden that could have unseen rot.Plus any that are regarded as a "don't touch its a lemon"
All advice appreciated."
I thought it was a good question.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2016 13:47:04 GMT 10
I'm asking on behalf of a friend: "A thread to learn what vans are constructed from to help when I'm looking for a van. Thoughts are an older pop top in good condition that can be upgraded. Basically,I would like to know which ones use alloy frames VS wooden that could have unseen rot.Plus any that are regarded as a "don't touch its a lemon" All advice appreciated." I thought it was a good question. Good afternoon MM,
I can remember asking something like this 5+ years ago, I think I asked "how much damage/or repair was too much" something like that. What we have to remember is different material have different qualities and flaws. Alloy frames can be classed as being to rigid and timber frames can be classed as having to much movement by some people, timber rot is nothing to someone who enjoys working with timber while corrosion of steel rivet or screws would worried them. Just because a caravan has an alloy frame doesn't mean there is no timber in it ! Many still have timber in the roof sections plus the floor is made of timber and it will rot (mine did) plus what about fibreglass caravans they have steel and timber plus the main body is fibreglass.
The answer I received all those years ago is simple, research what type/size of caravan you think your friend would like and then start looking for any spec's on the make and model, then start going and looking and work out what how much are you wanting to rebuild/repair. But it will always be a personal choice - there is no, one caravan better then another - there all just different. cheers
|
|
|
|
Post by tim on Jan 18, 2016 9:01:49 GMT 10
In my admittedly limited experience, caravans are generally stapled together out of the cheapest, lightest materials available. Meranti timber, luaun ply with the thinnest skin of aluminium. Wired with sub standard wiring and made almost watertight with substantial quantities of various caulking compounds. I'm sure it differs from brand to brand, but the few that I've experienced closely were all built on the cheap - despite being very expensive both when new and now.
A simple technique for determining whether they have a timber or aluminium frame is to look at how the cladding is held on. Aluminium framed vans will have the skin pop riveted on, whereas timber framed vans have the cladding screwed on, usually with raised plastic caps covering the screw head.
Tim
|
|
|
|
Post by doublechevron on Jan 18, 2016 9:38:53 GMT 10
To be honest .... I'd only buy and older caravan if it has an aluminium frame. I don't really buy the "it fatigues and cracks" story. I'm sure some do. There might even be one in 1000 of them with cracks in the frame. If it's made of wood though, 1000 in 1000 of them WILL have a rotten frame.... I don't believe there would be an un-rotten wooden framed caravan out there (unless it's already been repaired ... or it's lived in a shed its entire life). Having said that, I own a wooden framed caravan .... figure that one out  You really do need to buy on condition. And a wooden framed 'van was the only one I've found in the size and configuration I wanted, that was still in reasonable condition.... and was also in my price range. I reckon best would be finding an old foam sandwich Franklin that's lived in a shed, and been leak free its entire life  seeya, shane L. |
|
|
|
Post by captivenut on Jan 19, 2016 13:23:38 GMT 10
...I don't really buy the "it fatigues and cracks" story. I'm sure some do. There might even be one in 1000 of them with cracks in the frame.... seeya, shane L. But aluminium cancer (electrolysis) may be an issues in some vans? |
|
|
|
Post by Mustang on Jan 20, 2016 7:35:58 GMT 10
...I don't really buy the "it fatigues and cracks" story. I'm sure some do. There might even be one in 1000 of them with cracks in the frame.... seeya, shane L. But aluminium cancer (electrolysis) may be an issues in some vans? From what I have seen, electrolysis in aluminium vans is a bit of a Furphy. I have just renovated a 1977 Viscount that has little love in its life, the windows are held by S/S screws, most of the originals reused. The aluminium frame is in excellent condition while the front & rear window frames were well rotted. Like Shane says 1000 of 1000 wood frames would be rotted unless repaired, this applies to a lot of newish vans also. |
|
|
|
Post by captivenut on Jan 20, 2016 8:56:02 GMT 10
But aluminium cancer (electrolysis) may be an issues in some vans? From what I have seen, electrolysis in aluminium vans is a bit of a Furphy. I have just renovated a 1977 Viscount that has little love in its life, the windows are held by S/S screws, most of the originals reused. The aluminium frame is in excellent condition while the front & rear window frames were well rotted. Like Shane says 1000 of 1000 wood frames would be rotted unless repaired, this applies to a lot of newish vans also. Yes I agree when referring to ss screws used on external cladding. My wife's vintage Viscount has no issues in that area. But I was talking about mild steel bolts and rivets not ss screws. My 70's York has the same issues with the anchors in the bases of the aluminium wallframes that spud refers to in this thread... ditzygypsy.proboards.com/thread/3641/york-caravanI can see white powder and aluminium corrosion around many of the rivets in the bases of the wall frames in my York. I'm not sure what metal the rivets are made of but I suspect they could be mild steel. Not a major drama to drill out and replace with ss bolts & large ss washers ...just another job on the resto list! Cheers, Arthur |
|
|
|
Post by captivenut on Jan 20, 2016 9:09:25 GMT 10
Basically,I would like to know which ones use alloy frames... I don't know of any conclusive list of caravan frame types. Some makers confound the issue by having started a model run with a wood frame as the base model then offering an alloy frame as optional extra, then discontinuing the wood frame in favor of all alloy as the base model, then briefly reverting back to wood frame some years later...go figure? One telltale to look for on any van is the presence of rivets in the external cladding. If the entire cladding is attached with rivets then it's pretty much a cert that the frame is metal. Cheers, Arthur |
|
|
|
Post by atefooterz on Jan 20, 2016 10:36:35 GMT 10
From my own timber framed caravan and looking at many others of all types you will find somewhere that electrolysis is a real thing, think annodes on a ship etc: The negative "earthing" helps with the 12v current flow that somewhere/ somehow will find a more reactive metal ( less noble) to dissolve. On my one it is the mild steel bolts from frame to steel outrigger rails, i suspect the pitting on the rear window frames may also be a clue on many vans. ( furthest area away from fast current flow in most looms) |
|
|
|
Post by mickmarsh on Jan 23, 2016 15:47:38 GMT 10
From my own timber framed caravan and looking at many others of all types you will find somewhere that electrolysis is a real thing, think annodes on a ship etc: The negative "earthing" helps with the 12v current flow that somewhere/ somehow will find a more reactive metal ( less noble) to dissolve. On my one it is the mild steel bolts from frame to steel outrigger rails, i suspect the pitting on the rear window frames may also be a clue on many vans. ( furthest area away from fast current flow in most looms) Yep. You will have electrolysis issues if you tow your van around in an electrolyte behind a boat. When using dissimilar metals in joints and fixings, yep, you will get electrolysis. Not a lot to be too worried about. Chemically, aluminium is very reactive but the oxide layer forms a protective barrier. If the looms are causing issues, you have more potentially dangerous issues than corrosion. I wouldn't even touch the door handle. |
|
|
|
Post by atefooterz on Jan 25, 2016 11:45:50 GMT 10
Mickmarsh looking at how little action there is on most old caravans, i do think that the electrolyte factor can be quite variable, according to storage,use and location. Here near the sea on the Sunshine Coast every night almost is enough dew to allow beaded water to pool most nights the rain always tastes salty, i know from my old 1985 L300 Mitsi van ( i still own since 1997)When i was near the sea ( Balgowlah)for 5 years the difference in rust compared to the last 15 years living in the Sydney hills 30+ klm away, is quite stunning, again mostly salt carried in dew & rain water. Luckily no electrolysis detected in that! As you say the aluminium forms a dusty prtective coat but as i was saying the mild or stainless steel fasteners are what suffer/ dissolve away, being the main issue.Remember the amount i have seen on vans showing 40+ years of use means that most will die before they see any drama on a restored caravan. |
|
|
|
Post by supreme78 on Feb 17, 2016 17:50:04 GMT 10
I would be concerned about buying a wooden frame van old or new. i have seen wooden frame vans 2 years old in bad condition and requiring expensive repairs. I had a wooden framed van and only owned it for a few weeks and resold it as it was a can of worms in the making. I then purchased an alloy framed viscount van and haven't looked back. I just don't get how a manufacturer would build a new van with a wooden frame. its madness. if Noah was to build an ark these days the last thing he would use is wood. I once wrecked a tandem franklin and was very worried when i realised what little held the sides to the chassis. The van design was advanced but the front and rear was just a rotten wooden frame anyway.
|
|
You really do need to buy on condition. And a wooden framed 'van was the only one I've found in the size and configuration I wanted, that was still in reasonable condition.... and was also in my price range.
