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Post by Mustang on Jul 20, 2015 17:28:42 GMT 10
Remember guys stainless steel of the 316 grade (the qualities you are thinking of) is very different to 302, 304, 304L, and carpenter class 305. The cheapest replacement slot head ones are about 0.28c ea if i buy at least 100, box is 1000! Depends if you are after 20 year or 50 year perfectionist results. only really done by isolating stainless from any contact with alloy, regardless of grade. I re-polished the heads of all my usable "original" screws & re used them, they were non magnetic so they must be somewhat stainless? very little perosity/invasion after 37 years, so I used S/S for the replacements . Richard Potter warns against it on his site www.ourtouringpast.com but I see S/S as the worst of two evils, you could use brass? but why did the original maker use S/S? perhaps they didn't envisage their vans on the road after 40 years? Our Touring past |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 20, 2015 17:32:00 GMT 10
Remember guys stainless steel of the 316 grade (the qualities you are thinking of) is very different to 302, 304, 304L, and carpenter class 305. The cheapest replacement slot head ones are about 0.28c ea if i buy at least 100, box is 1000! Depends if you are after 20 year or 50 year perfectionist results. only really done by isolating stainless from any contact with alloy, regardless of grade. seeya, Shane L. These days it is not just visiting or living near salt enviroments but also pollution in dew/drizzle when trapped or starts to coat fasteners. Many of our rooftop comms instals, when visited 5-10 years later, have surprized us as quite often with the heavy hot dipped gal always outlasting the stainess for durability and being able to still use the nuts on bolts rather than angle grind. Within 10klm of salt water a very different story.  I have a lot of marine fittings from the 1970s that still look new while most stuff after the 1990s gets tarnished very easily. Folks do not appreciate what we lost when BHP stopped making steel here. |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 20, 2015 17:35:04 GMT 10
Remember guys stainless steel of the 316 grade (the qualities you are thinking of) is very different to 302, 304, 304L, and carpenter class 305. The cheapest replacement slot head ones are about 0.28c ea if i buy at least 100, box is 1000! Depends if you are after 20 year or 50 year perfectionist results. only really done by isolating stainless from any contact with alloy, regardless of grade. I re-polished the heads of all my usable "original" screws & re used them, they were non magnetic so they must be somewhat stainless? very little perosity/invasion after 37 years, so I used S/S for the replacements . Richard Potter warns against it on his site www.ourtouringpast.com but I see S/S as the worst of two evils, you could use brass? but why did the original maker use S/S? perhaps they didn't envisage their vans on the road after 40 years? Our Touring pastGreat question, and one i was pondering with the electrolysis fest in some areas of mine, ( planned lifespan?) The stuff all the manufacturers used was in reality higher grade than specs now... see my above post ,typed while you posted yours. Very common was 316C Versus 316D for cost and use both way above the newer spec mixes sold today. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 21, 2015 9:55:13 GMT 10
You guys are probably right with regards to the lifespan of fasteners. I still don't think there will be an issue. Every fastener gets a coat of silicon before it's screwed in, so it'll be isolated from the air and dissimilar metals either way ...
seeya,
Shane L.
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 21, 2015 12:53:29 GMT 10
The upshot is with my point being that the manufacturers were lucky with cheap available fasteners, so folks* do not judge new replacemnt ones "untreated", with original parts lifespan that has been removed. * Many of my posts are aimed at the majority, that just lurk or newbies that will read threads at a later date, as much as direct chat with the original poster. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 22, 2015 13:17:43 GMT 10
Well I drilled all the pop rivets out of that window cover.  As soon as you remove the big hinge across the top it all falls apart. It's incredibly flimsy one apart.  It's been repaired numerious times over the years (given the caravan still has it's original unworn cross plies on it I'd say this sucker fell off and popped apart every time the caravan was moved). I removed the silicon that must have been trying to hold it together as well.  with the top hinge off it "opens" along the top edge. the rubber seal is all that holds the edge of the aluminium into the frame. The seal looks like a long length of window wiper blade rubber.  Look how old the cracks in it are.... I'd say this happened when the caravan was new.    To straigten out the bend edges where it's popped out of the frame I used to pieces of very soft pine to spread the force and avoid further damaging the surface.   It's just sitting together here ... What I'll do is give it a really good clean and rivet it all back together and refit the seal. If it looks reasonable I'll coat the back of it with sikalfex adhesive, that way the panel can never blow out again (though given it will now be screwed to the caravan frame rather than the cladding, it's unlikely it'll twist/fall off allowing the big cover to twist along it's length now....it's the twisting along it's length as it's mounting screws fall out that will have allowed the cover to pop out of it's frame). seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 22, 2015 13:49:13 GMT 10
Great job and better than new once you finish your magic on it.. #winning! |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 22, 2015 14:18:28 GMT 10
Great job and better than new once you finish your magic on it.. #winning! This will never look perfect. You never get aluminium sheet flat against once bent.... I'll see how it looks assembled for deciding if I should replace it (obviously this decision is made BEFORE you go anywhere near it with sikaflex LOL). Slightly bent so you don't notice unless you look for it is fine. Obviously damaged isn't............ I need to remember it's a 30year old caravan, and nothing is ever going to look "perfect" ... looking "used but not abused" is fine though  . |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 22, 2015 14:53:07 GMT 10
Great job and better than new once you finish your magic on it.. #winning! This will never look perfect. You never get aluminium sheet flat against once bent.... I'll see how it looks assembled for deciding if I should replace it (obviously this decision is made BEFORE you go anywhere near it with sikaflex LOL). Slightly bent so you don't notice unless you look for it is fine. Obviously damaged isn't............ I need to remember it's a 30year old caravan, and nothing is ever going to look "perfect" ... looking "used but not abused" is fine though . The issue with alloy sheet is it takes a greater force to bend it again that what bent it, then the stuff grows so always a tricky issue. Sometimes being l;ucky and glue sheet locally to a gussett can trick the eye and look better than untouched yet is not perfect or made worse by mucking around. |
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Post by Mustang on Jul 23, 2015 8:17:47 GMT 10
Some days one thinks all the problems are yours, we all have a few majors regardless of brand.
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 24, 2015 23:16:53 GMT 10
Some days one thinks all the problems are yours, we all have a few majors regardless of brand.  Back on the first page of the thread I posted this. I want to put an order through to the caravan place for maybe 15tubes of butyl mastic ?? (sounds like a lot, but there is 9windows, 2 4 seasons vents and 1 door that you can't use silicon on as they need to be removable in the future). I figured I'd better see if the 4seasons hatches needed any parts by pulling one out. The roof is way, way, way stronger than I was expecting, no ... I didn't stand on it But I could just lean over from the edge standing on a ladder and lean my weight over it (I guess air conditioners are the best part of 50kgs and fitted into these holes.... I wouldn't be that heavy just leaning over). It's quite strange how the factory *didn't* use silicon. If they had these hatches would still be perfect. Note: the silicon trowled all around the hatch. This is all still perfect just like the roof seems.... Infact as good as the day it way applied 30years ago. The mastic put over the top of the silicon and all around the hatch to sill it is broken and lifting though ( it the bright white looking stuff in the pictures). I found after I scraped off the silicon over the screws, they were all like new and barely finger tight. So how did I unscrew them without climbing up onto the roof ?? With a set of pliers... How?? Well I've always carried a little pocket knife since I was a little kid and always thought the multi-tools that became fashionable about 10years ago were a bit of a wank ( ). Anyway my wife thought I'd like a leatherman and got me one about 5years ago as a present.... Now 'cos it was a present I thought I better use it even though a small pocket sized knife was all I'd ever wanted or used.... I'll be damned I used it everyday, all the time .... so much so I broke half the implements in it... so went looking online for one that was as good quality as the leatherman but had a blade I get out without having to put down what I wanted to cut to spend 30seconds diving inside the tool to find the blade and found one of these www.sogknives.com/powerassist-satin.htmlbig to carry, I don't even notice it's always on my belt after a couple of years. This is why I'm talking about the multi-tool. This is how tight it effortlessly grabs and holds... It's nothing short of brilliant. so I can just reach over and unscrew the screws with my pocket knife without climbing onto the roof and applying downward pressure on the screwdriver. You dont' slip 'cos it grips so tight. . |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 25, 2015 0:32:26 GMT 10
Wow we will need to take you offshore now you have mastered a leatherman! I should just say shhhh as most folks will just get confused or argue it will not work, even though you did it! |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 25, 2015 10:17:03 GMT 10
Wow we will need to take you offshore now you have mastered a leatherman! I should just say shhhh as most folks will just get confused or argue it will not work, even though you did it! Oh, that's a point I didn't mention. SOG multi-tools are for sale ebay in Australia... but aren't, um, "quite legal"............ Technically your not allowed to carry any folding knife any longer (I've always carried one since I was about 10years old.... Just like my grandfather did). These have "blobs" on the blades so you can open them one handed ... which is also illegal  The pliers have geared reduction, that's why you can grab and turn screws with them. It's similar to locking on a pair of vice grips in the way they hold. I figure stupid laws are made to be ignored though seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by Mustang on Jul 25, 2015 12:48:58 GMT 10
Before Vincent I made knives as a hobby, takes about a week. I couldn't make it pay, so I decided to import ready made from the US. (SOG make brilliant stuff.) We are having more & more restrictions on folders, although 90% of stabbings are with the kitchen domestics. The worst case Iv'e heard of is a sparky up a ladder with his tool belt on showing a multi tool (which had a blade) was pinched by a copper for wearing a knife in public..... Go figure. ? I carry a folder, always have, always will. Bloody nanny country. We sell mainly top end, as there is no money in ebay selling cheapies, check us out: www.littlemountaintraders.com.auebay: littlemountaintraders. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 25, 2015 14:49:50 GMT 10
Before Vincent I made knives as a hobby, takes about a week. I couldn't make it pay, so I decided to ready made from the US. (SOG make brilliant stuff.)We are having more & more restrictions on folders, although 90% of stabbings are with the kitchen domestics. The worst case Iv'e heard of is a sparky up a ladder with his tool belt on showing a multi tool (which had a blade) was pinched by a copper for wearing a knife in public..... Go figure. ? I carry a folder, always have, always will. Bloody nanny country. We sell mainly top end, as there is no money in ebay selling cheapies, check us out: www.littlemountaintraders.com.auebay: littlemountaintraders. Wow, nice ... some Japanese blades, I bet they have a good edge. I've had a couple of cops stare at my leatherman (always attached to my belt ... usually hidden by cloths) when I was in a bakery a year or so back. You could see they were conflicted.... in theory there supposed to pull me up and ask me what it's for. It's actually not illegal to carry a folding knife unless you have reason .... I have reasons... hundreds of them ... cutting fruit, cutting rope, cutting twine, sharpening pencils. stripping wire, cutting wire, cutting food, opening packages, unscrewing screw, opening bottles,opening cans..... I could keep going all day with the things it gets used for (not to mention everyone at work has started asking to borrow it all the time when they need a sharp knife). I could see the "way to much effort" look on there faces .... 'cos they'd sure have been in for a discussion if they wanted to confiscate it. Lots of paperwork, and they'd be handing it back to me in the end. Now if I was a youth of ethnic persuasion it would probably be different ... There's no way they would have been taking one of my work tools if I was a plumber.... I remember about 10years ago before all the crazy knife laws we visited parliment house ... counter at the front "please leave any knives here for collection when you leave" .... Oh .... I pull out the french knife my brother inlaw bought me ( really nice edge on it, but fiddly to open and use).... "any others" said they guy ... Oh says my wife, and dives into her bag and pulls out a swiss army knife from one of the pockets...... "oh keys" I say spotting them. So we both pull out a keyring with a small folding french knife on it ... Oh gee's we ended up leaving 5 knifes with the guy there  |
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Post by Mustang on Jul 26, 2015 8:55:53 GMT 10
I remember about 10years ago before all the crazy knife laws we visited parliment house ... counter at the front "please leave any knives here for collection when you leave" .... Oh .... I pull out the french knife my brother inlaw bought me ( really nice edge on it, but fiddly to open and use).... "any others" said they guy ... Oh says my wife, and dives into her bag and pulls out a swiss army knife from one of the pockets...... "oh keys" I say spotting them. So we both pull out a keyring with a small folding french knife on it ... Oh gee's we ended up leaving 5 knifes with the guy there Love it, "good morning, please leave all guns & knives here" Wonder what would happen now?? I remember going overseas with a Swiss Army in my carry on, in fact the ads used to blast it, "dont travel without your Swiss Army Knife". The same trip my daughter was invited up to the cockpit because it was her birthday, we all went up & met the pilots (1994) The cockpit of a Jumbo is incredibly boring, two small monitors & few buttons/switches. |
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 26, 2015 11:21:36 GMT 10
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 26, 2015 15:46:07 GMT 10
Hmmm.... This roof hatch wasn't leaking by the looks of this. Only the back one was damp when I collected the caravan. This roof hatch is actually sealed up really well and I doubt it would have ever leaked (I'd never have removed it if I'd known).  there is some water staining in a corner ...   I was wrong, it was sealed in at the factory with silicon around the bottom then mastic over the top... However in the last 10years someone went over the housing with white silicon .... and were pretty effective at making this water proof.   whoever siliconed the hatch up did a pretty good job, every rivet head, every corner where water could get under (as the plastic probably shrunk slightly over the years allowing the hatch flaps to weep in heavy rain.  No sign of it ever leaking. Very clean, no signs of water tracking anywhere.    this is the flap that had blown out .... Notice the dirt down under the hinge area.... Now that's a guide to catch any water than gets past the hinge and guide it over the corners and down the edges so it can't get inside. Notice they have been silicon'd closed, these will flood eventually and allow water to drip straight intot he caravan in heavy downpours. I'll remove the silicon from here.   The flap that had blown out... it slots in nice and snugly............ But falls straight back out again. I couldn't see how on earth it was supposed to stay in place. So removed one of the flaps that didn't blow out.   Wow.... How dodgy, that's bloody hilarious..... How did the factory stop the 4season flaps falling out ? The deliberatly slightly buckled the flap so it has to be flexed along it's length to slot in in/out.  The bent one that doesn't fall out.  Nice and straight .... looks perfect... This is the one that had blown out. I just need to put a bend into it so it won't fall out. Oh yeah, note the plastic clips, you just use a screwdriver to separate them as shown so the wire that opens the flaps will pop off. seeya, shane L. |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 26, 2015 17:44:04 GMT 10
Great work sharing this with us. Mine leaked once in record rains during Easter. Just about a tablespoon over 24 hours for 5 days then dry since and even with hose no joy to replicate. It was dripping in the middle via the knob, after entry in the flyscreen. All i could find was a thin gumleaf stuck in the exterior hinge groove plus some grit, so i am glad now i did not pull it all apart as a thing to do, just because lol.
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Post by Mustang on Jul 26, 2015 19:14:51 GMT 10
Great work Shane, my shoulders are hurting just reading your efforts. I can see why you don't want to remove the rear.
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 26, 2015 20:00:01 GMT 10
The rear one is the one that was damp .... so I will have to remove it  ..... The worst thing is I'll probably have to refit them with silicon.... Once that stuff is used, you really need to stick with it 'cos nothing else wants to stick to a surface that has previously had silicon on it. I guess it's 30years old and never leaked .... so will last another 30 if done that way. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by doublechevron on Aug 6, 2015 9:45:13 GMT 10
The last couple of nights I've been cleaning some more mastic from windows.... I have 2/3rds of the windows ready to be refitted now. Last night when I sat the front window back in and had a screwdriver in hand .... I thought "I wonder what is involved in removing the door frame".... So I opened the door and stangely one screw was missing ..... hmmmm..... So I tried to unscrew a couple ...... No go there either.  Check this out.... Only one screw in the entire door unwound without me pushing a blade down behind the screw head and prying it up  If you haven't checked your door ....... CHECK IT THey must leak and leave absolutely no evidence anywhere they actually leak. I'm going to have to hunt down instructions on getting the frame out as it appears the inside trim is still holding it in somehow. Fingers crossed there is some frame left behind the door! Finally I'll be able to start re-assembling this stuff.... I had a big spend up on fleabay and caravanparts when I got some tax back.... So there is slowly lots of little packages arriving in the mail each day .... screws, sealers, foam, anderson plugs, battery isolator, brake controller etc...... seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by awbeattie381 on Aug 6, 2015 14:11:20 GMT 10
Ordinary looking screws there!! Good luck with the door. Gotta love receiving a gift from yourself in the mail...love internet shopping haha!!
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Post by doublechevron on Aug 7, 2015 23:41:29 GMT 10
 Well I got the last few screws out ..... What a bloody mess. The shiny ones are the stainless replacements. I got 500 of the same sized ones, if you look closely one of them is one size bigger ..... I figured I'd get 100 that are one size bigger just incase there is holes anywhere in the caravan the standard screws spin in..... I still couldnt' get the door frame out, it was wedged solidly into place ...... It HAS to come out though, given the screws it's frame be rotten as buggery and I'll need to figure out how to replace it.   I figured they must fit the frame in there in pieces ... .so tried to unscrew and drill the rivets on the bottom frame piece ..... Yeah don't do that ... It doesn't came apart.  that inside trim is really effective at holding the frame in,. It just lifts out.      I don't know what to make of this .... The frame is like new. Maybe I might chisel out a small bit of wood in the bottom corner about the size of a matchbox, and glue a new section in .... Other than that, it's perfect .... But those screws ?? this makes no sense.  Like everywhere else I've looked behind the cladding its like new  The screws have rusted away in the holes, but not damaged the wood. I don't understand how this is possible.  I've just refitted the frame for now. I'm still waiting on foam tape to turn up in the post (to protect the butyl mastic from drying out again when I refit the door and windows). Finally I'll be getting somewhere towards actually starting to re-assemble this thing rather than constantly just pull in further to pieces we have the stainless screws, new tru mould decorative tape, 10 x roof and plumbers silicon, 15 x butyl mastic and temp gauge/service items, brake controller, battery isolators etcc for the tow barge. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by Mustang on Aug 8, 2015 7:54:28 GMT 10
Nice collection Shane, especially that lathe, but I expect its not required for the van, but certainly for the Citerons. Something I use a lot is a sanding belt attatched to one end of my bench grinder. I have kept all my old parts so we can have a laugh at the end, I will spread them out & take a photo, roofing screws in the windows etc.  |
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I have a lot of marine fittings from the 1970s that still look new while most stuff after the 1990s gets tarnished very easily. Folks do not appreciate what we lost when BHP stopped making steel here.
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The pliers have geared reduction, that's why you can grab and turn screws with them. It's similar to locking on a pair of vice grips in the way they hold. 
