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Post by Mustang on Apr 4, 2015 8:04:11 GMT 10
After seeing this ad Millard Micro I got to thinking is the classic era too restrictive? This little Millard is every bit a classic but too young to be included, by one year.
My thoughts are a vintage car is considered pre 1930, when was this devised ? 50 years ago? these vehicles are now 85 years old, surly a 1931 Ferrari would now be considered vintage? A vintage caravan is considered pre 1970, what year was this devised, will we run out of pre 1970 vans? I suspect so, new gas laws,brake laws etc will gradually force the repairs up & these vans off the road. What then when all us baby boomers die out? will there still be vintage & classic?
To keep the ball rolling I would suggest that as each year passes another year be listed eg, for classic 1970 to 1981 etc ? If this were the case I could buy my Micro & still be part of the gang.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 9:11:34 GMT 10
Hi mate
I always believe that vintage and classic should be set to a length of time ie 30 for a classic and 50 for vintage so that when anything reaches 30years old it becomes a classic and if still around at 50 years then it becomes a vintage.
But then there is an issue, what if it is not original ? Should they still be a classic or vintage? I believe that once changed it should no longer be classed as classic or vintage. I have an old van . 38 years old but not a classic as I have updated a lot of the van. Maybe we could call it a mod classic ?
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Post by murray on Apr 4, 2015 10:28:32 GMT 10
I was insulating my 1964 Harris van and I found this  Confused me for a while until I did some research wikipedia says A vintage car is, in the most general sense, an old automobile, and in the narrower senses of car enthusiasts and collectors, it is a car from the period of 1919 to 1930. Such enthusiasts have categorization schemes for ages of cars that enforce distinctions between antique cars, vintage cars, classic cars, and so on. The classification criteria vary, but consensus within any country is often maintained by major car clubs. Cheers Murray |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 10:29:24 GMT 10
Also I should add that once something hits 75 years it is classed as historic and that would be to infinite
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Post by atefooterz on Apr 4, 2015 13:29:58 GMT 10
Also I should add that once something hits 75 years it is classed as historic and that would be to infinite Beware that mindset, as so many (well a growing number) of "vintage"vans are 1 to 2 years old and lovingly built as replicas! Cheers Mustang, great thread and a topic that especially among car mobs sees the point of view by alpha males & chest beaters as finite! Thankfully these types will die or become to sickly to reign, so the newer ranks take over. In the 1970s the Rover & Humber car clubs were a great example as roars were heard accross General & AGMs "There will never be a square shaped Rover/ Humber, while i am President of this Club = ROFL!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 14:12:49 GMT 10
Making something look old does not make it old, and replicas will always be a copy until they survive 20/30/50/100 years. I don't have a "classic" van - not now, I didn't even buy a classic van as it had changes made to it by the owners before me, I have an old van. So to call a 1 or 2 year old van a "vintage" is a bit of a stretch imho.
cheers
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Post by atefooterz on Apr 4, 2015 15:47:12 GMT 10
Making something look old does not make it old, and replicas will always be a copy until they survive 20/30/50/100 years. I don't have a "classic" van - not now, I didn't even buy a classic van as it had changes made to it by the owners before me, I have an old van. So to call a 1 or 2 year old van a "vintage" is a bit of a stretch imho.
cheers
This board will not allow 153kb pics atm, says too big but under 2MB!! Oh well at the bottom of this post vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/13935/south-australian-caravan-camping-show?page=2 you will see a timber finished pop up replica, based on the 1920s design, almost brand spanking new- but certainly not a modern nor classic!  |
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Post by Mustang on Apr 4, 2015 18:48:28 GMT 10
Changes to interior design & remakes, are not what I was getting at, they will always be on the outside. 
I'm reconstructing our Viscount as close as it was from factory build, hopefully it can be called a classic.
My original quote was for a caravan just outside the 1970/80 period, preferably as it left the factory, like the Millard Micro.
Question 1:"Classic" When will we be letting these newer models above 1980 into the "Classic" class?
Question 2: "Vintage" When will Classics become "Vintage"?
Possibly never so what are the vans manufactured in the last 34years called?
Just my ponderings  
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Post by atefooterz on Apr 4, 2015 19:54:12 GMT 10
Great points Brent, in 1988 a group of us, many with car or meetings committee ranting experience started to put up the ground rules for a mob and groundswell of interest in fast sailing skiffs of days past! by the time we incorperated (May 1991) we decided on the name Historical Sailing Skiffs, this was in reaction to but not limited by, imput from the players as we wanted a scene that could grow, so today almost 25 years later we have not had to change anything, explain/joke about while we are vintage we also allow classics-moderns to tag along etc! All that stuff confuses the greater public & more importantly sponsors and grants that are available for projects. The motivation was as some genuine skiffs are still around the most cost effective way to use & display their charms is by replica! We have a fleet of racing replicas, regattas that a variety of original and replicas attend plus the 2 major Wooden Boat Festivals held on alternate years & locations, most importantly is the sence of inclusion for those that replicate to make life easier ( a bit like putting solar & microwave in a classic van) and those who have held on or obtained a piece of history. Our sailing Classics are from 1970 to 1981 as the change to carbon fibre nomex from plywood makes the cut off easy! The entry is by design changes from round diagonal planked to hard chine ply construction. So again in caravan terms if a 1977 Millard has the same profile as a 1969 one then it becomes a sticking point around campfires lolz!! |
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Post by pisces51 on Apr 4, 2015 21:05:55 GMT 10
Perhaps a bit of background history might be helpful in answering some questions posed... The Vintage Caravans forum started in 2004. The owner of that forum (who also owns this forum) has said on many occasions on the Vintage forum that the cut-off date for vans on that forum will not be changed from the 31st Dec 1969. In the years following the start of the Vintage forum, people would come on with unknown vans, asking what brand it was, and what year was it built? (the same as they do on this forum  ). When they were told their van was built in 1970 or later, they were essentially told the Vintage forum wasn't appropriate for their van, and to "go elsewhere". But, they kept coming, and eventually there seemed to be enough interest to maybe try and cater for these vans that didn't fit the vintage criteria (see Note 1 below). That's how this forum started. The then-partner (now ex- ) of the forum owner put up her hand to get the forum set up (her nickname was "Ditzy", hence the web address for the forum being "ditzygypsy" ), and here we are eight years later. Having been a member of both this forum (7 yrs) and the vintage forum (9 yrs), it always used to irk me how the people who inadvertently joined the vintage forum were given short shrift when their van was discovered to not meet the vintage criteria. I was determined to act differently when I became a Moderator on this forum six years ago, and accepted anyone and everyone that came on the forum, no matter what sort of van they had. We have members who have a Vintage van, but who have decided to stay with this forum even after I told them they were eligible to join the vintage forum. And at the other end of the scale, we have members who have Viscount Grand Tourer vans from the early 1980s (I think 1984 is the latest year). Basically, it is up to the current participants on the forum as to whether new members stay on the forum, or give up and go elsewhere. If new people post their story about their van, or ask a question about their van, and get no response, why would they bother hanging around here?! Whether somebody's van is built in the 1960s, '70s, or '80s is not the important bit - it's the reception that people get when they post on this forum that makes or breaks their enthusiasm to keep posting. cheers, Al. ps. Note 1 - One of the vintage forum criteria is that a van is acceptable for that forum if it was built EXACTLY to plans available from the vintage era. So, I can build a van today using plans that were available in 1950, and it will be accepted on the vintage forum. Whether it gets the "vintage" tag or not is not relevant. What has always amused me about being pedantic about year limits, is that a Viscount built on 31 Dec 1969 is acceptable for the vintage forum, but a Viscount built ONE DAY later on 1 Jan 1970 is not eligible. No matter what limits you place on eligible time frames, there will always be somebody who just misses out - for no logical reason. |
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Post by atefooterz on Apr 4, 2015 21:27:28 GMT 10
Well said Al! What all owners & posters need to look at is the scene versus your own dream. A common theme on all these various forums is that "we all purchase,restore, rebuild, replicate, to suit our selves" So fixing up a 1972 17ft van to use for 2 adults & 2 kids doing a grand tour is very different from those near retirement and setting up for 2 but mostly show and tell tours. The fast moving area nowadays is the classic/ vintage car tug scene and those owners seem a long way away from our traveller members when it comes to the finished result, as being fussy with their car means that a very high standard is natural for their caravan. An interesting journey is that of VVaner Tara Moss, her musings about a caravan then the fix up and then camps is inspirational, matching furnishings to owner fashion makeup and hair a timewarp, especially in black & white. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 8:41:27 GMT 10
So mustang without going to far off topic..:-P so are you going to buy that micro? Would be a great little van.
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Post by Mustang on Apr 5, 2015 17:51:21 GMT 10
So mustang without going to far off topic..:-P so are you going to buy that micro? Would be a great little van. I would love too, but Vincent has to be finished before I go looking again, 3 x vans would really be too many. The Micro appears to be exceptional, would suit the Mustang ? but I guess there will be more fish. 
Thank you guys for your input to this thread, some very interesting background.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 7:10:22 GMT 10
Very interesting read.
In some states (Well Qld actually) your car must be 30 years old to get "club" rego (And LHD).So I have watched as now vb,vc commodores ,xd,xe falcons can be regoed as "classic".These are cars that in my older years I consider "newish"..lol.But the "vintage/rod" still covers the original era ,30's,40's,50,s ,even though this is blurring as I see more modern stuff getting the "rod" treatment.
So my 2c.
Let vintage stay at 1970. but let "Classic" stick with a 30 year age gap.It works with cars. My '78 is the same shape as the first '67 Escorts but it's classic because of the build date.
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Post by Mustang on Apr 6, 2015 10:41:33 GMT 10
Very interesting read. In some states (Well Qld actually) your car must be 30 years old to get "club" rego (And LHD).So I have watched as now vb,vc commodores ,xd,xe falcons can be regoed as "classic".These are cars that in my older years I consider "newish"..lol.But the "vintage/rod" still covers the original era ,30's,40's,50,s ,even though this is blurring as I see more modern stuff getting the "rod" treatment. So my 2c. Let vintage stay at 1970. but let "Classic" stick with a 30 year age gap.It works with cars. My '78 is the same shape as the first '67 Escorts but it's classic because of the build date. Interesting comment when you consider newish, I have to pinch myself when someone refers to an EH Holden as 51 years old!! cant be. Yesterday I visited my nephew who just purchased his second Jayco, (lot of van for the money) on the door is a badge "Jayco 40 years", well that means there are Jaycos that can join the Forum as "Classics" hadn't thought of a Jayco as a classic before. 
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 16:42:04 GMT 10
yes , I know the feeling,early eighties as a young feller a lot of my mates had hot sixes in eh's and hr's , the big guns were the v8 crowd, monaros ,fords ,and i had a 72 charger, it was only ten years old and a repo from a second hand caryard.I think now that was over 30 years ago...jeeze ,where has the time gone?....lol
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Post by atefooterz on Apr 6, 2015 17:30:27 GMT 10
My first car was an old EH 149 standard, back in 1977, when i was a late teen. As an old teen now i look back to those 70s & 80s times that seem many lifetimes ago. The funny part is kicking my mostly 30+ year old kids to remind them that the 90s were two decades ago and just as importantly that 2000 was a decade and a half ago!! Life is short... enjoy the present, learn from the past, get excited about the future! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 17:56:54 GMT 10
Maybe the mods can move our ramblings to some other "off topic" thread or something..
Again my 2c ...follow the rules of the tow cars...30 years ...classic....(then follow the VV rule...pre 1970's vintage)
I don't know why they picked that ..probably because there isn't a real lot of '30's or '40's vans about. so for me 1970 is it ......
But as a suggestion,...that way suddenly '85 models are "Classic" instead of being "an old van" and '80's also..(Might be "a really old van|..lol)
At the end of the day people on this forum can make their own rules,..just saying...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 18:32:14 GMT 10
I have just posted a similar query to our sister site VV's , will be interesting to see responses..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 19:26:58 GMT 10
Hey all ,How do I do a "survey" thingy ,does this board support it..?
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Post by atefooterz on Apr 6, 2015 20:14:57 GMT 10
I have just posted a similar query to our sister site VV's , will be interesting to see responses.. In light of being the sister site & all a link... vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/14441/dating-vintage-vansThere are so many topics/threads etc on that site navigating can be hard for newbies or time challenged! |
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Post by pisces51 on Apr 6, 2015 20:35:44 GMT 10
G'day mustang, Yes indeedy, Jayco started in the mid-1970s building camper trailer models, and named them either "Finch, Dove, or Swan". See this thread on our forum: 1977 Jaydove RestorationI don't think they started building full-sized caravans until the 1980s, but forum member hughdeani can confirm that. The other brand that's been around for a loooong time is the Coromal brand. Davenq, the poll option hasn't been activated on this forum by the forum owner - probably because people used to "abuse it" on the vintage forum over the years, conducting polls for pointless reasons. cheers, Al. |
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Post by bobt on Apr 7, 2015 15:00:45 GMT 10
Hey Folks I always find this topic interesting, I have hung around the car scene for many years so when you talk vintage vs classic the first thing that comes to my mind is "CARS" I thought I would go dig up the definition that the "Motoring People' use. The one below was acquired from from “Veteran Car Club of Tasmania Inc” * Veteran & Edwardian, manufactured prior to December 31st 1918. * Vintage, manufactured between January 1st 1919 and December 31st 1930. * Post Vintage, manufactured between January 1st 1931 and December 31st 1949. * Classic Acceptance, manufactured between January 1st 1950 and December 31st 1969. * Modern Classic, manufactured between January 1st 1970 and December 31st 1989.” They are here -- vccatas.org.au/A little note you maybe interested in is. The Vintages Sports Car Club in the UK was formed in 1934 for Vintage cars, pre 1930's cars, so they were cars 4 years old and more. Cars in Victoria 'registered' on the Red Plate permit scheme pre 1930 have number plates displaying 4 numerals, post 1930 have 5 numerals and the letter "H" for historic. Anyhow as Al said earlier the Classic Forum has never not allowed those with caravans to participate be they "Vintage", "Classic" or "Collectible". bobt |
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Post by Mustang on Apr 7, 2015 18:50:46 GMT 10
HHmmm, I'm not sure how to put this but, I still think if we stick to a 10 year time slot in classics, we will be dead in the water in a few years?,
So will the VV, it will take a special modern bride to put up with an "ice box" & a "kero stove".
At least the "classics" have 12v, gas, & extra beds for family.
Don't get me wrong its not sour grapes I just think we should be looking to succession, & opening up the beauty of older vans to enter the age of "classic" or "vintage" once they reach that age??
One of our moderators has stated they wont knock any one back here at "Classics" & there are registrations up to 1984 models, I think this is admirable, but it should be official, so a browsing owner will know they are welcome.
Ponderings again Cheers Brent
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Post by atefooterz on Apr 7, 2015 20:54:08 GMT 10
HHmmm, I'm not sure how to put this but, I still think if we stick to a 10 year time slot in classics, we will be dead in the water in a few years?,
So will the VV, it will take a special modern bride to put up with an "ice box" & a "kero stove".
At least the "classics" have 12v, gas, & extra beds for family.
Don't get me wrong its not sower grapes I just think we should be looking to succession, & opening up the beauty of older vans to enter the age of "classic" or "vintage" once they reach that age??
One of our moderators has stated they wont knock any one back here at "Classics" & there are registrations up to 1984 models, I think this is admirable, but it should be official, so a browsing owner will know they are welcome.
Ponderings again Cheers Brent
The fun part to watch, be involved with, will be the next ten or so years, the way the scene is growing means a marketable and cash producing scene. Whatever the interest this always leads to movers & shakers making things happen. When these sites started i do not imagine that places would be building vintage replica vans, with a waiting list, like that mob on the Gold Coast was even a consideration. In time i imagine a growing scene of events based around presntation, originality or style finish for original & replicas etc, this is a given with the Vintage & Classic Car folks jumping on board. Luckily there is room for all as this is a huge country, those who refurb for price point and adventure will continue to do so, folks who like bright painted interiors plus modern comforts instaled and the great thing about that is it will drive up the original classics value, much in the same way the smash up derbies did for the EH-HJ Holdens My van has a 32inch flatscreen, computers, microwave etc... But in display mode it is still a bare bones caravan park Arrow all spartan with (now) very shiney original fit out, sure with a few dings and repairs on various corners. The load in load out of mod cons a small price to pay, when travelling around and living 24/7 in the beastie. Quote about 200 folks who have popped in to have a sqiz... öoh now this is a vintage van!" haha nearly 1/2 of whom were looking at pre 1960s vans minutes earlier. |
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). When they were told their van was built in 1970 or later, they were essentially told the Vintage forum wasn't appropriate for their van, and to "go elsewhere".
