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Post by Caprinut on May 11, 2012 20:53:23 GMT 10
Just a topic to throw into the ring for comment. Was at the caravan shop buying bits and pieces so wife walks next door to the new caravan display showroom to pass the time. Salesman engages her in conversation and she proudly mentions that I had spent close to a year and tons of money to restore my old Capricorn to pristine condition. He throws water on it by suggesting I could have done a much wiser thing to rather buy a new van as when you compute the time taken based on average labour rates I have thrown twice the amount away on what is still an old cart. Now mankind would be nowhere if we did not do the extra mile without consulting an accountant. How many castles have been built based on someones passion and vision without reason. When I look at new vans with all their decor and doillies it really does not stir me into parting with $85 000- hard earned cash Peter   |
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Post by arrowdreaming on May 11, 2012 21:28:13 GMT 10
Hand over $85,000 in 2 seconds or....take your time, enjoy the challenge, affordable parts you have hunted for and learn t about, the pleasure in standing back and knowing you have accomplished the task and feel warm all over, dreaming of the day, you have hitched him/her up and knowing, you know ever inch of your van, and it is safe, secure and part of the family.
You do not get those feelings handing over cash for the whole lot done.
I want to go caravan journey, not take a mansion or president suite around Australia.
Just purchased two magazines and it is all about who has a washing machine in the van or the executive dinning suite, and all interior decorated for that superior style living.
My home is not like that so why would I want something that isnt my style.
And you can get a house and acres for $85,000 in our rural towns.
Nomad life and reality of permanency rolled into one.
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Post by viscount6116 on May 12, 2012 14:32:30 GMT 10
Gday guys Yep Im with you guys. $85000+ for a caravan-"tell em there dreamin" The sales people forget to tell you that as soon as you drive it off the lot its only worth $65000 (hmmm suppose you could do a lot of work on an old clunker for a lot less than the depreciation costs on a new "white monster") By the way there are no guarantees of getting a better van by buying a new van and in many ways our old vans are much better built(they just arent as flash) Doesnt really worry me I never have been one to "keep up with the Joneses" Cheers Andy  |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 15:16:40 GMT 10
And brand new ones still leak and rot ... just like in the good old days.  |
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Post by bobt on May 12, 2012 16:58:22 GMT 10
;D ;D salesman missed out on his commission  sour grapes?? I never make an issue out of it. New ones become old and un loved. collectors come alone and acquire them. If it was not for those that buy new we would not have classics to buy. Just get out there and restore to your hearts content. You may notice that people always want to talk to owner of the restored one... not the owner of the new one
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Post by penny61 on May 12, 2012 18:17:36 GMT 10
Hi... There's nothing wrong with Vintage and Classic vans... I found when I was looking for a caravan (any age to begin with) that because I want to tow with my 74 VW Kombi Auto that the new/newer vans were just too heavy for my rather retro car choice.... 750kgs+ were considered light for vans that were 25+ years old and new ones.... even small ones... were being advertised as light at around a tonne. I did look at some mid 80s vans, and a some of them were around 500ks.  :-/Admittedly you got more van for the same amount of money I paid for my vintage van with a classic one... but weight was more important than price. Some of the technology/gadgets you can get in new vans are pretty cool... but you're right, the price-tag and depreciation isn't!  And I like that I now own something that only a few other people (and a couple of museums) own.... instead of something much more commonplace. ;D Vanessa and Penny P. Propert |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 22:32:23 GMT 10
... but you're right, the price-tag and depreciation isn't! Vanessa and Penny P. Propert And our classics do appreciate. I paid $2500 for my 1978 18' York tandem axle back in 1995. It is not restored. It is well maintained, pretty original, 100% sound and waterproof but certainly showing it's age. I'd expect $6,000 - $8,000 for it as is ... in 2012. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 21:33:52 GMT 10
Love those salesmen, ;D ;D we were looking for a small, light van with shower and toilet and were told by a "reputable" van dealer that you could not do it in a van of less than 18 Ft, (about 2 tonne all up). That comment was a challenge to me , ending up with me buying a 14ft 6 vintage Franklin Caravelle in poor condition and completely rebuilding it inside and out to our own requirements. Total cost was around $17,000.00 but now we have a unique, one off van that suits our needs completely and is light enough to tow with a 4 cylinder Camry. The money saved on not buying a new van gives us more for traveling. Thank you salesman.
Frankidownunder.
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Post by millard1399 on May 15, 2012 11:15:37 GMT 10
G'day wahroonga, As I often said on this forum (or maybe it was on the Vintage forum), there's absolutely no logic to the variable prices that people are prepared to pay for an old caravan. There's a late model 1978 York, 16ft, on ebay at the moment. Looks to be in good condition based on the ebay photos. But with 2 days to go, nobody has put an opening bid on it at $4300. Makes you wonder what sort of caravan it would have to be for people to think it was worth at least $4300. I'm blowed if I can work out the caravan market. cheers, Al. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 10:21:59 GMT 10
And brand new ones still leak and rot ... just like in the good old days. Do they, I would have thought that the quality of products used to seal would be better? How long did it take old vans to leak Vs new ones? |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 10:24:33 GMT 10
G'day wahroonga, As I often said on this forum (or maybe it was on the Vintage forum), there's absolutely no logic to the variable prices that people are prepared to pay for an old caravan. There's a late model 1978 York, 16ft, on ebay at the moment. Looks to be in good condition based on the ebay photos. But with 2 days to go, nobody has put an opening bid on it at $4300. Makes you wonder what sort of caravan it would have to be for people to think it was worth at least $4300. I'm blowed if I can work out the caravan market. cheers, Al. I think it is seasonal and weather, best time to buy a van is winter, best time to sell is just before summer. |
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Post by viscount6116 on May 17, 2012 11:06:19 GMT 10
Gday Jamo How long did it take old vans to leak Vs new ones? I suppose eventually they will all leak,however a few of the newer ones are leaking well before some of the older ones ever showed some of the standard water ingress signs! Check out some of these horror stories and imagine how excited you would be after parting with big $$$$$$ only to have to part with even more to fix it caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12286"Think I'll stick with my old trusty Viscount !" ;D Cheers Andy |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 16:12:26 GMT 10
Gday Jamo How long did it take old vans to leak Vs new ones? I suppose eventually they will all leak,however a few of the newer ones are leaking well before some of the older ones ever showed some of the standard water ingress signs! Check out some of these horror stories and imagine how excited you would be after parting with big $$$$$$ only to have to part with even more to fix it caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12286"Think I'll stick with my old trusty Viscount !" ;D Cheers Andy CRIKEY I think I will stick to an old banger too, would rather spend 20K on something i know is mickey mouse than 40 to 80 K on something that is no better or worse. |
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Post by millard1399 on May 17, 2012 16:50:35 GMT 10
I don't quite understand what it is about caravan sealants that makes them "fail" after a relatively short period of time. Is it the fact that caravan shells flex a lot during travel, and the sealant adhesion gives way, or is it something else? My inquisitive brain asks the question: How come windscreen sealants in cars can last forever? Why is it that windscreens in old cars are still waterproof, even after 20 years or so, but caravan bodies are not? Do pantech truck bodies leak after a period of time? Do buses? Do aircraft? What's the difference between all these other vehicles and caravans??  cheers, Al. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 17:39:37 GMT 10
I don't quite understand what it is about caravan sealants that makes them "fail" after a relatively short period of time. Is it the fact that caravan shells flex a lot during travel, and the sealant adhesion gives way, or is it something else? My inquisitive brain asks the question: How come windscreen sealants in cars can last forever? Why is it that windscreens in old cars are still waterproof, even after 20 years or so, but caravan bodies are not? Do pantech truck bodies leak after a period of time? Do buses? Do aircraft? What's the difference between all these other vehicles and caravans?? cheers, Al. I have a theory.Guess, opinion  movement, temperature and possibly the timber frames absorbing moisture from within and weakening the bond, as timber swells and shrinks it could cause the bonding issues. Also once timber is wet it will absorb, so the smallest external entry point can create rot, therefore weakening the entire structure. Then you have the BIG LEAK LOL, and an entire frame can rot like in my van . I was actually shocked that the new vans are timber frame, i would have expected an alloy. I would not purchase a new van if it was a timber frame. What happens with alloy frames?, surely it takes alot more damage to the seals to start letting water in, as it would not absorb it like a timber sponge?? |
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Post by bobt on May 17, 2012 18:11:16 GMT 10
I looked at a 'new' caravan 2 years ago. It got caught in a hail storm they had taken the cladding off the wall to replace it. The timber frame around the front top and rear top corners of the wall were water damaged. I had gone in to buy it... Some other poor sucker did. The only thing I could put it down to was poor application of the sealant. Maybe the builders took more care when the earlier vans were built, or perhaps the earlier sealants were more durable then what is available today. I have seen car windscreens leak too. Had one do it once, it was after the screen had been replace. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 20:17:29 GMT 10
.....What's the difference between all these other vehicles and caravans?? cheers, Al. Very simple really. It's workmanship, that has plagued the mass market caravan industry since it's inception. Mate bought a beautiful $70,000 caravan. Leaked from day one. Water ingress at external light clearance lamp fittings, window corners, boot etc. Basically quality control and lack of sealant are the problems, not the quality of sealant. Being the persistent type he managed (with a bit of lawyer support) to get a new replacement van. Guess what? The new replacement van leaked also; but at least he was on to it straight away and after some expensive warranty repairs, he now has a sound van. Crazy. The van is choc full of quality fittings ... poorly assembled. Did I say this somewhere else?? ... no wonder our manufacturing industry is going down the gurgler. We need the German approach ... |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 12:30:10 GMT 10
Hi Al,
I have a theory also:
The only objects missing from a car or truck Vs a caravan are gas appliances.
A by-product of burning gas is formaldehyde - which over time can dissolve most glues. The house we are in now had an unflued gas heater operating every morning and night for around 30 years during the cold months. When we moved in we noticed all glues used in the flooring (cork) in that room and also the old Hi-Fi unit fell to bits. We got rid of the heater.
In a van you have a gas fridge which is flued (to what extent I'm not sure), plus an unflued oven with 2 x burners - they possibly are not used often but exist in a confined space when on.
I would expect wood frame vans would be more susceptible to glue deterioration from formaldehyde.
So keep the windows open when you are cooking and don't use the oven as a heater during winter - get a fan heater.
Regards
Bobbie
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2012 20:35:14 GMT 10
I cannot imagine buying a new van now, even though we still have a long way to go on our reno, the fun we have had planning, searching, researching, changing plans, contemplating etc etc is time I have thoroughly enjoyed, it is after all our future we are planning.
As the advert says.....priceless.
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Post by drylander on May 26, 2012 23:08:37 GMT 10
well Al when I look at older vans and find that very few ali vans from the 70's leak at all. Even my old millard was waterproof until the bushfires warmed her up a little. Maybe too much thought going into the new sealants?
Pete
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Post by penny61 on May 27, 2012 18:51:56 GMT 10
Unless they have wrap around windows in the corners.....!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 14:57:23 GMT 10
It's all in the quality of the workmanship, Al.
There are, indeed, superior sealants etc available but, as you might gather from Cabcar's posts on CF, they still need to be applied correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2012 21:41:03 GMT 10
I have always had a passion for older caravans. And the passion is equally missing for new examples. In fact, the emotions aren't neutral, but opposite.
My son, now in his 30s, understands the passion. He shares it. He always has.
Interestingly, he has gained years of experience in the field, first at a major Australian manufacturer (where his job was to rectify - or hide - any faults before the vans were released for sale), and then at a major repair facility where mainly imported vans were rectified for faults under warranty.
His experiences would make anyone's hair curl. Detailing them here would doubtless result in a lawyer's picnic. He has left the field totally disillusioned and now works happily and successfully in the heavy engineering field, where quality and excellence are paramount.
Suffice to say, his (and my) passion for older caravans has only increased. His enthusiasm for the workmanship, materials, and style of the various vans I've owned over the years, from a very early bondwood, 'Dorothea' (where is she now?), to the present 1973 Bedford CF/Dolphin campervan is palpable.
Caprinut, keep the faith!
Cheers,
Neil
PS - buses and trucks seem to be a completely different animal, with completely different (higher) standards. I was in that industry for a long time, and have to admit the advances in body, chassis, and engine technology have been astounding. The caravan industry, largely, and sadly, seems to be a stark contrast. Let's face it, there is a lot of competition, lots of grey and aspirational dollars, and the overall aim of the scene is arguably one-upmanship and bling. In some fields there were definitely 'good old days'...
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2013 21:56:36 GMT 10
Gday Peter
Gotto say say damn salesman ,i was in at the caravan shop in newcastle the the other day
picking through their spares when i walked through the the show room and the sales guy was showing a client around his new van that he was purchasing ,he has grabbed the blind and said see the blinds are built in and a press of the button and the inside blind comes down crooked ,all this in a 100000 van and they still dont work ,my moneys on my old viscount at least i now every thing works
Biggles
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 11:22:47 GMT 10
I agree, we need to be vewy vewy quiet about our treasures that others think are trash. I look on the New big dollar vans now and wonder 1) will it make it to its fortieth birthday 2) how all those "quality" fixings will be replaced with homemade inventions/adaptations that will most likely out last the originals. Lol. Amongst other things. Like "can you actually hear the dollars falling off as you drive it out of the sales yard? and "do you spend your time yelling at your kids 'don't touch/slam/use/breath'!!"?? O.o I like to be original. Whether that means having something different rather than not knowing which is mine in a sea of same, or being able to say "I built this" and/ or "I am maintaining this little bit of caravanning history". I like the thought of my van being a conversation starter that includes phrases such as "Ohhh! I remember when I was a kid and we had a van like that" leading on to stories because I love stories. I Love Stories.  whether about the vans, my van, or people's experiences in them, you will not find me happier than when listening to those(sometime tall) tales! Actually add a fire and a drink and I can squeeze a few more drops out of Happy. I don't like stories that begin with a chin lift and a "so how much did that set you back?" My dad's bigger than your dad... Nah. Give me history, uniqueness, personal ownership of craftsmanship. This is my van, not because I bought it, but because I put her back together (well, getting there) and I love her. Random getting off the soapbox now. |
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:-/Admittedly you got more van for the same amount of money I paid for my vintage van with a classic one... but weight was more important than price. 
whether about the vans, my van, or people's experiences in them, you will not find me happier than when listening to those(sometime tall) tales! Actually add a fire and a drink and I can squeeze a few more drops out of Happy. I don't like stories that begin with a chin lift and a "so how much did that set you back?" My dad's bigger than your dad...