Waterproofing my Millard

[Deleted]

Hi All,

I only just joined up

I am in the process of restoring a 26 foot 1975? twin axle double door Millard to be used as a Mobile Museum for a not for profit organisation.

i am up to the waterproofing of the roof stage. It has some internal water damage. I will have to remove the internal lining and ceiling as part of our fitout anyhow.

The van has a lot of white "sealant" around all the external seams of the van which is all dried and in some cases flakey.

I was hoping that someone may know the best way of removing this old sealant, and the best way to go about resealing all the joints. What products should I use? If I have to remove all the roof sheets, then I am pepared to do this, as waterproofing is essential.

Also , any tips on re-rubbering all the small "Millard" iconic windows would be helpful.

Hope to hear from some of you soon,

Cheers,

erniech

[millard1399]

G'day erniech, and welcome to the forum! ;D

Well, you've certainly jumped into the deep end with a project of this size! A 26-footer, no less!!

Man, are you gonna be sick of this van when you get near the end of the job (or even half way through the job )

The cream coloured sealant used on these old Millards will be rock hard now. I used a chisel to carefully prise it off the surface, but it takes hours and hours, and you still can't get it off completely. Some people have used those paint remover wheels that fit into a grinder. Best thing is to start with whatever tools you've already got, and if you haven't gone very far after an hour, go buy something else that might make the job quicker.

Sealants? Heck, this subject has been thrashed to death on this forum, and still we have no clear cut winner. The only agreement we've reached is that silicone sealants are a pain in the butt to remove if you're trying to do a restoration. For a van the size of yours, you'll need a heap of cartridges, so you'd probably be best looking at the cheaper end of the range. I used 30 cartridges to do everything on my 14ft Millard poptop, so I guess you're looking at maybe double that amount. Maybe if you choose something around the $6 mark per cartridge, you'll get a reasonable quality sealant. The polyurethane type are around that price level. Be prepared to use lots of sealant, lots of masking tape, lots of rag or paper towel and lots of turps to clean up. (...Are you sure you really want to do this?!! )

The window glazing rubber can still be bought by the metre at caravan parts outlets. I bought mine from the on-line supplier known as CaravansPlus. Click on this link and it will take you to the item on their website. At $2.99 a metre, it will cost you a fortune to do all the windows in a van the size of yours. I presume you've got the triple louvre windows all round, if it's a mid-70s Millard. An easy way the push the new rubber into the frame is to smear a little olive oil along the glass next to the frame, and the rubber will (should) slide into position fairly easily.

Good luck with the job. Wouldn't swap places with you for quids (been there done that ).

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Well Thanks for that Al....I think

I am aware that it will be a large task, but she's a beauty and deserves the love and attention.

It has a galvanised chassis which it is extremely difficult to believe is almost 40 years old. I have already upgraded the tow hitch and the brakes to hydraulic discs. I have wire brushed and painted the axles and springs etc so they look like new as well now......so its upwards and onwards.

I don't have a big time limit at this stage...so I'll just plug away at it.

Have any of the members actually pulled the entire roof off their Millard and virtually started from scratch?....that's one option I am considering...not that the roof is really that bad....I don't think

erniech

[millard1399]

G'day erniech,

Well Thanks for that Al....I think

Yeah, don't take too much notice of my feelings towards Millards. It's just that after spending 16 months working full time on the restoration of my poptop, I'm well and truly over Millards and their sealant and louvre windows.

If your van has a galvanised chassis, then it must be a 1977 or later model. In early '77, Millard made the big announcement that all Millard and York vans would get the following "breakthrough" improvements:

- galvanised chassis
- fire extinguisher
- front end jacks
- and for all standard vans 16ft or longer - electric brakes on all wheels.

I can't recall anybody on the forum pulling a full size Millard completely apart. If you can avoid taking the roof off, that would save you a heap of time and trouble. Your van should have an aluminium frame, so there wouldn't be too much timber around to get woodrot. If the internal panelling is showing water stains, you could maybe think about just renewing them and leave the caravan shell intact.

Sounds like you're a "man on a mission", and have done a fair few hard yards already, so hopefully the rest of the work to be done is just as satisfying. ;D

cheers,
Al.

[Trevor]

Thanks AL,

I knew you had your heart in the right place..you wouldn't be moderating this forum if you didn't.

You are right...it does have (or did have)

A galvanised chassis
Had 2 fire extinguishers
Front end Jacks
Electric brakes on all wheels....although I still can't figure out how they worked exactly

The reason that I thought it may have been a 75 model, is that I was told by a lady (MEL) at a caravan place in Newcastle that she believed that the second number of the chassis # represented the year of Manufacture.....my # is M50309. The van also has a # punched into the steel on the gooseneck which is GCP S109. Maybe you can make some sense of thse details.

Overall the van is in very good shape for its age
and for what we intend to use it for, to buy anything comparable that would do the job would have cost 15 to 20 thousand I reckon, so I don't mind speding a bit of money on it.

I have a mate who is helping me with the project. We want to keep the outside as original as possible, although it has one quite large window....much larger than the standard Millard louvre size....on the drivers side. It is leaking anyway, so I intend to remove it, and sheet over the hole with original sheeting.

For anyone that may be interested, there's a bloke in Albury NSW who has some original brand new sheeting for 70s vans that he is selling...I bought one sheet that matches my profile for $26.00.

I have combed your forum for tips on the waterproofing thing...and it looks like I'm back pretty much where i began...the answer is time, sikaflex and elbow grease.

One thing that someone might be able to help with is.....What seems to be the best solvent to remove the last traces of the dreaded white scurge that surrounds all my windows and joints after I have removed most of it by wire brush etc?

Cheers,

erniech

[millard1399]

For full size Millard caravans, the chassis numbering system is an "M" followed by some numbers. They started using the system in about 1962, giving that van M01 (or M001 or something like that). Then they just kept ticking the numbers over as each subsequent van was built. By the end of the 1960s, they were up to about M14000. By the time yours was built, they were up to M50000. The big difficulty with dating Millard vans is knowing how many vans were built each year, and what the chassis number range was for each year. I've talked with a bloke who worked for Millard for a while, and he said the number of vans built each year would change depending on market demand. All we can do when dating Millard vans is to look at the chassis number and the other items such as Four Seasons hatches, etc, and try and guess an approximate year.


For the residual sealant issue, I ended up chiselling/scraping as much as I could, and then wiped down the remaining surface with turps before applying the sealant. The photo on the top right shows what the edge looked like after I'd got as much off as I could...



cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Hi erniech,

Great project you have there and in my opinion you have one of the best and strongest classic vans to work with.

These particular Millard/York vans will still be going strong ... next century. The ali frame and gal chassis put them in a class apart.

You should be able to sort the brakes if they are complete. They are very simple but reliable. I would suggest a complete re-wiring of the brake electrics and keep all the cable lengths equal so that each brake receives the same current (equal resistance loss to each brake assembly).

So head down and bum up.

PS post some pics when you get a chance.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the tips guys.

i would post some photos, only I am not the world's most computer literate person, and I haven't yet figured out how to reduce my photos in size enough to be able to post them.

I'll have to work on that.

Meanwhile, if any one else has any handy hints..please feel free.

Cheers,

Trevor

[Caprinut]

Peter here,
If you want to remove the roof and have infinite patience it can be done and the benefit is that you can ensure that the edge beading is sealed perfectly when you seal it again. What I did was to slowly remove all the screws and staples holding the roof on and then peel it off and coil it up. I could now attend to the ceiling and framework as all is visible. Frames can be braced , hatch corners repaired and the inevitable sagging of the ceiling can be seen and fixed. I then cut and fitted styrene sheets , after painting with a acrylic sealer.
The roof sheet should be one continious coil if you peeled it of carefully

Yuo can now seal and check sheet roll joints and clean all the gunk off on the ground without too much sweat. I used a abrasive flap disc on a grinder and got it done in no time.
Once ready I used g-clamps and rope to attach and pull the sheet back over the roof ( two people pulling evenly ). You can now work progressivly around sealing and fixing along the edges and finally new alu beading which is much wider and has a better lips is used with silicone (use paintable silicone) and you have a better fix than the original rushed factory job.

[Deleted]

Thanks for that Peter,

That is very interesting....I think that is the way I need to go. The one benefit I have is that I have already gutted my van, as the inside will be fitted out as a museum. So I can actually pull the ceiling out as well.

I can't tell from the photo what type of van you took the roof off...but by the looks of the profile of the roof sheeting (same as mine) it is a Millard...and the van must be a fairly long one.

Do you mind telling me which aluminium beading you used (what does it look like?)and where you got it from?

What brand of silicone did you use? I was thinking Marine Grade Sikaflex....but I haven't got as far as checking whether that is paintable yet.

All the seams on my roof....both north/south and east/west have been sealed with an aluminium foil product that has a black tar type goo stuck to the roof. I started to remove the crap on the weekend...what a mission.

I does look pretty professionally applied, but I don't believe that this product would have been applied at the factory. Would that be your opinion?

My roof has lifted considerably along the front passengers side where the sail track for the annex has been fitted...and the arch in the sail track has lifted the roof away from the frame by 5mm or so in some places.


Good to hear from someone who has gone down this road. I wan't sure whether I was nuts or not to consder this option

Cheers,

erniech

[Caprinut]

Erniech,
You'll find photos of my build under 1975 Capricorn Vogue in Hall of Fame section. Not a very big van as vans go but full height with curved roof so all the problems you will encouter. The edge profile I used is stocked at caravan supply dealers as the modern profile on all new builds, it is 30mm wide with a10mm side curve that hooks over the edge and can capture a nice thick bead of sealant.

The screws are hidden under a pvc cover strip that fits into the groove. On the pic you will see that I used it for the vertical seal as well as the roof.
The sealant I used is my personal preference over silicone as it appears to dry to a tough but flexible join and can be overpainted. Selleys Polyurethane Adhesive and Sealant. Just use masking tape on the visible sides so you can peel off the excess before it dries to a matt off-white finish which is fine for the roof where you will paint over with a flexible paint and most people cannot see it, but on the sides you need a clean finish. I didnt use it for windows and doors as white silicone seals alu joins perfectly.
The foil you mention is commonly used in roof gap sealing by tradies and is a bitumin product called flash tape. Not ideal for caravans as it goes brittle when very cold and then can actually shatter, and under a fierce summer sun can even melt. I used it in the trade as it can bridge gaps but not for caravans.
When I had the roof off I fitted new ceiling panels, actually glued Laminex sheets upside down onto the old ceiling panels as my problem was stains and a 4-seasons hatch in the wrong position which the laminex hid once glued over, but I could also brace the ceiling with studs while I reglued the panels back onto the roof frames where it had separated. End result is a nice smooth scrubbable ceiling once done. A bit pricy with the cost of Laminex but its permanent!
Have fun Peter

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2012 13:53:09 GMT 10 @erniech said:

.... I would post some photos, only I am not the world's most computer literate person, and I haven't yet figured out how to reduce my photos in size enough to be able to post them. ....

Cheers,

Trevor

Hi Trevor,

re the pictures have a read of this thread

If you have any question, just ask.

Cheers

John k

[doublechevron]

May 15, 2017 20:25:55 GMT 10 NaNaLa said:

I can advice you RV Roof Coating because it's strong and sustains very long. After that you won't be afraid of heavy rain and you can stand under waterfall. Yeah, it can work even like this.

You would have to be crazy to pour that nuts all over your roof.  Imagine trying to scrape it off to do it properly.  You rekcon it takes a long time trying to clean off silicon and mastic... Imagine trying to get that crap back off  

The only way to fix leaks it to pull the tru-molds/hatches, clean the old sealer off and re-apply it correctly.....  

Oh, and guys I reckon we have a spam member here.  They don't even realise this is an australian forum.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Mustang]

May 19, 2017 21:49:12 GMT 10 doublechevron said:

May 15, 2017 20:25:55 GMT 10 NaNaLa said:

I can advice you RV Roof Coating because it's strong and sustains very long. After that you won't be afraid of heavy rain and you can stand under waterfall. Yeah, it can work even like this.

You would have to be crazy to pour that nuts all over your roof.  Imagine trying to scrape it off to do it properly.  You rekcon it takes a long time trying to clean off silicon and mastic... Imagine trying to get that crap back off  

The only way to fix leaks it to pull the tru-molds/hatches, clean the old sealer off and re-apply it correctly.....  

Oh, and guys I reckon we have a spam member here.  They don't even realise this is an australian forum.

seeya,
Shane L.

This dude has had 5x guest names in the last week, take no notice, their posts will be deleted as soon as they appear. They have infected VV as well