1980 Franklin Snipe - Y1316

[Patrick Bruce]

Hi All
Well back in January we saw a 1988 Millard for sale on gumtree. A few non-original features meant it could house our family of five comfortably, we could tow it with the Commodore wagon and the price seemed ok so off we set for a look.  The first thing we noticed was the original Franklin Snipe decals - so not a Millard. And the bright yellow laminate, mustard coloured fridge and original lino under the bench seating were a bit of a give away that we weren't looking at a late 80's model either.  Despite the dodgy advert the van's chassis seemed alright and the quantum of solar stuff that was sitting on the floor of the van waiting to be installed made the price all the more reasonable. That was that - Patrick Bruce joined the family and the adventure really started.

First we removed the cheap futon that had been installed as a lounge/double bed - bloody things take up a heap of room and really are the most uncomfortable things to sleep on, then a complete clean.  Unfortunately in doing so it became apparent that there had been a number of leaks and there was rot in the ceiling, a number of walls and part of the sub-floor. Hmmm. A quote from the local caravan repairer of $3,000 to replace the ceiling alone and any timber work in the roof was enough to scare the bejeesus out of us and prompted my obsession with reading absolutely everything I could on the internet.  This site has been an absolute lifesaver, it has provided me with advice; motivation and much needed support over and over again.

And so as a token of my appreciation I thought I would share the details of Patrick's refurbishment and perhaps the next newbie who buys a late 80's Millard 1980 Franklin won't feel quite so daunted...







A note on Patrick Bruce's Identity

• The chassis number Y1316 is clearly welded into the draw bar
• There is no 'badge' near the door nor does there seem to be any evidence of there ever being one
  
• Squashed in the back of a drawer under the sink I found the original sales paperwork, oven manual and fridge warranty; Patrick Bruce was first sold by Ron Prato Franklin of Geelong, Vic on 27 March 1980.  So I guess that makes him a 1979 or 1980 model depending on how long he sat in the sales yard.

A note on our skills

• I'm organised and don't mind a spot of 'research' - which is good considering my 'handyman' skills are limited to one semester of manual arts in my first year of high school many, many years ago.
• My Hubby is not in the least bit organised, has the same level of carpentry skills but is thankfully very tall which was very useful when we decided we needed to reseal the entire outside of the van.

Photos to follow.
SG

[Patrick Bruce]

First the ceiling...
After poking around in a few places we decided we'd remove the ceiling ourselves and save some money before handing Patrick over to the professionals. Glad we did. Not only did it reveal a second ceiling!!!! $%&!! but also a full aluminium frame. Besides a few straight beams supporting the pop-top there was very little carpentry required and nothing with curved edges that would take more superior skills than we had. Woot! The more we removed the more we thought we could do this thing ourselves. It would never be a homage to the original but it could be dry, structurally sound and look ok.
















I should have been a water diviner!
So after many, many hours of cleaning off mastic, silicon, dirt, spit and everything else that has been used at some stage to try and seal this van; and a ridiculous volume of sikaflex we were optimistic that we'd finally sealed the outside of Patrick Bruce. Then we got 200mm of rain in 24 hours. Maybe it should have been some sort of consolation that the roof on my house leaked as well?? It wasn't - we were both deflated. But at least we hadn't started re-sheeting so it was more obvious where the water was coming in. A few more tubes of sikaflex and we are now pretty confident the van itself is waterproof. The pop-top skirt now that is another story.  

I've looked at a lot of photos of pop-tops and even went on an excursion to a large second hand retailer a couple of hours south and none of them have a skirt attached the way ours is.  The skirt is PVC and original going by the two-tone caramel colour and appears to be in good condition. The problem seems to be that it is joined to the van at the bottom using a c-track. Unlike awnings where the 'C' runs horizontal this one is vertical and in heavy rain seems to allow water to wick up the inside of the skirt and into the frame of the permanent ceiling. While we are contemplating what to do about it longer term a tarp over the pop-top seems to be doing the trick. 

[Mustang]

Hi PB,
From what I have seen on this forum I don't think I would buy an aged poptop?
You are proceeding in the right direction in that all rotten wood has to be removed.

Take plenty of images as you will need to replace what you take out for strength. Don't be frightened to add brackets for extra security.

Ask questions, take your time.

[Patrick Bruce]

With the destruction complete and while I contemplated how we would actually re-construct Patrick Bruce we overhauled the plumbing - flushed the water tank, replaced all of the hoses and fitted a new pump tap. The electrics and gas will have to wait until we can drive Patrick to the professionals.

Happy Birthday Queenie...
So last long weekend - a.k.a. a perfect opportunity to get a bit done - the Husband got man-flu. Yep. In the interests of maintaining the supportive and jovial philosophy of this forum I think the less we labour on that point the better.  Let's just say after our usual debate about my nursing skills and level of empathy Hubby took himself off to bed and I redirected a bit of emotion into cutting up stuff with sharp implements. Walls done, sub-floor done, kitchen done. Awesome. Patrick is actually starting to look like the pictures in my head - if I don't look up.

TIP for other Newbies: do whatever you need to do  - beg, borrow or steal - a power saw if you are even contemplating re-sheeting a 1980 Franklin. Hand sawing everything while precariously perched on top of an outdoor table is not fun (even with a little bit of pent up anger

Also, the cheap mosaic tiles you get from the big green store are a really great way to cover up 1970's yellow laminate and work around electrics and the like. The depth of my bench tops was exactly one tile thick and I don't know whether it was the Van Gods taking pity on me but all of my dimensions aligned perfectly with the size of each sheet. (I've also worked out it helps if you wear your pyjamas while tiling, just because).







Bugger! see that sticker right there in the middle of my new wall.  Yep rookie error right there.

[pisces51]

G'day Patrick Bruce (and I'm curious to know how that name came about for your van...), and welcome to the forum!

I love your style of writing - you must have written light-hearted articles in the past. You'd be a great story-teller/reader at children's parties, I reckon.

You've certainly done some amazing work on the van so far, so congratulations on giving it a go by yourselves. I've actually been looking at those tiles in Bunnings for a repair job in my bathroom, so it is a nice coincidence to see what they look like when fitted to a wall.

The design of the poptop skirt leaves a lot to be desired, hey?! Good caravan design means everything above should overlap everything below, and I think the designers have stuffed up in this case. I'd be exploring the option of doing away with the 'C'-track (or sail track) completely, and substituting some L-shaped aluminium angle channel instead (or perhaps even some square aluminium tubing of, say, 20mm x 20mm) and then screwing through the bottom rod that's sewn into the canvas and into the outside of the angle/tube. Then the bottom of the skirt would be on the outside where it really needs to be, and water would drip onto the actual roof. Be very cautious when removing anything around the roof level that's holding the bottom of the skirt in position - the springs lifting the roof up will suddenly want to extend to their full length (height) and can rip your nose off if it's in the way when that happens.

And thanks for posting the date on the paperwork. Is there also a date on either the fridge or oven paperwork? I've always worked on the basis that the 'Y'-series of chassis numbers must have been from 1977, so perhaps on the basis of your evidence I need to rethink that.

Also interesting to read that you can't find any evidence of the RVMAA badge near the door. The industry was still using them in those years, so maybe if you look towards the front on the doorside, there might be a couple of holes there where the badge once was. I've seen some of the Viscount vans where the badge has been fitted pretty close to just below the front windows, but on the door side wall of the van.

Anyhow, great story so far! Keep adding to it as you enjoy the ups and downs of the wonderful world of Classic caravans!

cheers,
Al.

[Patrick Bruce]

Thanks Mustang and Al - we really appreciate you taking the time to welcome us.

Hubby is particularly thankful for the tip on avoiding a a DIY nose job! After all as the tall one in this partnership the roof is mostly his domain. It's reassuring to also get your views on the the pop-top design. After the effort we've gone to to clean out all of the old gunk, remove all screws, fill all gaps/holes and re-seal it we were out of ideas. During our last lot of rain we covered the pop-top enough to protect the skirt but still have water pool on the main roof and we didn't have any leaks so we are more confident that the problem is with the pop-top itself; just not sure why or how.

To the mystery of Patrick's age - The same buyer details and purchase date (27 March 1980) that are written on the Van manual are also on the fridge warranty card. There's definitely no RVMM badge anywhere on the van; there are however a couple of holes that aren't accounted for just below the front passenger side window (to the left of the door). They could be where a badge was previously attached I guess but I had assumed they were probably from a door hook as there are couple of holes on the door as well located at about the same height.The door is a split barn-style door so that the top half can be opened to reveal a screened section. There's still a hook on the bottom half but nothing on the top half. I'll take some photos of the decals, Lino and cabinet hardware over the weekend in case that gives you any extra clues.

A Saintly connection? Probably not...
To start with you have to understand that my family are 'namers' - pregnant bellies, the wild birds that live on the bridge going into town, nick names, houses names and cars. Always cars.

My uncle is a mechanic and has been part of almost every vehicle purchase I've ever made so when I asked him to view the van on our behalf and assess its mechanical soundness he was more than happy to do so. After the deal was done and he'd towed our latest purchase to his nearby property it was only natural that I would get a text from my Aunt - 
AK: "Its's definitely a boy. I think his name is Patrick, after the patron saint of travellers"
Me: "err except that was Christopher!?"

Two minutes later I get a text from my Uncle - 
UJ: "It's definitely a boy. I think his name is Bruce"
Me: "That's funny the AK just told me his name was Patrick"
UJ: "Yes that's right Patrick Bruce"

So Patrick Bruce it is.

[Patrick Bruce]

Hi All
Its been a while since I've posted but work on Patrick has continued.

A man, his wife, his dog and father-in law walk into a van...
Three days before the husband was off for a knee reconstruction, we called in some babysitting reinforcements and boxed out the pop-top and replaced the ceiling in the permanent roof. With no floor to ceiling cupboards to provide support on the long sides of the van, the aluminium frame around the pop-top had begun to sag so we started by bracing that prior to screwing in new timber beams. We filled the roof cavity with polystyrene (courtesy of the local fruit & vege shop), and with much trepidation cut the ceiling sheets. After a bit of cursing, huffing and puffing, and finally a bit of contortion the ceiling above the bunks was finally in. Suffice to say with three adults and a dog making a nuisance of himself jammed between the two bunk units for a considerable amount of time in a stressful situation - it might be a while before the next family 'get together'.







I'm really pleased with how the ceiling turned out, a little disappointed with the trim joins but am trying to remind myself that this is our first time doing anything of this nature. And there's not a lot spack fill can't hide







With more rain and a focus on trying to get as much water as possible to run off the van we decided to leave the bracing poles in situ so added a few brackets to keep them firmly in place and gave them a lick of paint. Also added a little shelf to the ones over the sink which will come in very handy as there's not a lot of storage overall.

The windows to Patrick's soul...
To get Patrick home initially we had used good old gaffe tape to hold closed one of his windows, three others also had broken locks, one a broken winder and in a few the plastic corner pieces had broken so the aluminium frames were coming part in the corner. I found this awesome article online that gave detailed instructions on how to remove the windows, refurbish them and reinstall.

caravansplus.com.au/catalog/help-window_repair.php

With only a small hiccup getting one of the windows out past the vertical annex rail all are now opening and closing as they should. (And yep I now know what you all meant by the fixing powers of sikaflex!)

With most screens either torn or very, very brittle I put my mind to fixing them. I'm pretty sure it was on this forum where I read about a really awesome solution of using a soldering iron to melt new fly screen to the old rubber edging. Well I've got to say it worked a treat. Especially on those where the screen had just come away a little. Unfortunately after a day and a half of removing, cleaning and replacing the screens, upon trying to put them back into the van I discovered that I hadn't stretched the rubbers enough or left enough slack in my screens. Most got damaged again on installation. My hands were sore, I was really cranky with myself and in desperation got online and bought a whole new set. At $20 each it wasn't cheap but the ease in which they were installed went a long way to soothing my bruised ego. And truthfully if I was to get a little tear in the future I'd definitely use the soldering method.









Almost there. Almost.
So the gas fitter has been and the new fridge is installed - our old fridge had the gas outlet at the back on the floor, the new one is at the top and front of the fridge - and the original stove/oven is working. Woot!! The big test will be if I can bake biscuits in it. Strangely when we go camping I get all overcome with domestic Goddess tendencies and do things that I NEVER do at home. Like bake. With our old pop-up camper the thermostat safety thing was a bit stuffed which meant that it would turn itself off as soon as the oven heated up. The only way to address the issue was to curl up on the floor with a good book and sit with your finger on the safety override for the 20 minutes biscuits took to bake. It was a pain but also a good excuse to read a book in relative peace - which with three kids is nigh on impossible normally.

Patrick is now at the auto electricians getting his wiring serviced and solar installed. And we've set a date!! Friends have just bought a block of land a couple of hours away and we've teed up to celebrate with them next weekend. It will be Father's Day and really what better way is there to be reminded of the awesomeness of family. The block is vacant, no drinking water or power so all of Patrick's whistles and bells will be on show. We don't have double bed yet but a mattress on the floor inside the now gorgeous Patrick will be pure luxury after years of tents. I'm so excited.

PB

[Mustang]

You both have come a long way & learned so much.
Well done on a quality reno.

[peter92]

+2 on that for sure
coming along really well

[78466noM]

Great job and may Patrick Bruce give you and your family  tonnes of fun and happy memories in the years to come.

have fun and stay safe Bruce

[atefooterz]

Thanks for sharing your adventures and handy tips. Great results.

[Patrick Bruce]

Tadaa!!...Almost
Apologies for the delay in writing, we've been busy CARAVANNING! Yep that's right Patrick is 'finished' and we've now had a few outings to test out all that is awesome about having a classic caravan. We've done a combination of bare blocks, caravan parks and freedom campsites - all have been unique, all have offered the opportunity to trial different Patrick features and to test what we really need to pack. 

For those of you that have read this thread from the beginning you will be well aware of my incredible (and let's be honest unenviable) attraction for water. Yep first visit to an actual park with services, we'd just completed set up and went to fill the jug for a well-earned cuppa when a tidal wave of water flooded out of the kitchen cupboard onto my feet. Thankfully the kitchen cupboard doesn't have a lot stored in it because it includes the wheel arch and plumbing/gas pipes so mostly contains washing up gear, the glad wrap, table cloth and that sort of thing. Even with the tap turned off all we could do was try and contain Old Faithful until the water in the pipes also emptied. It seems the mains water pipe inexplicably has a join and although I tested the mains tap many months ago the vibration and movement which comes with towing had put too much pressure on the join. So in all my planning I did actually put together a small tool box to stay in the van - apparently my foresight didn't stretch to needing two shifters (or at least one and a pair of stilsons). Even more surprising than having an unnecessary join in our copper pipe was that I had packed plumber's tape!?! Some contortion, a few scraped knuckles (him), a bit of cursing (both of us) and for small celebration for having small hands that fit into tight places (me) and we were right. For the time being.

So far we've learnt that we always need to take warm gear even when it is October; one shifter is never enough; how we pack the van and tow vehicle is really important if we want to avoid doing an unpack on the side of the road 10 minutes from home; it is sometimes worth paying a few extra dollars to not have the added weight of a full water tank to tow; a camping dog can be higher maintenance than three kids; set-up and pack-up does get quicker with practise; and spotting other classic vans (and guessing their brand and age) is addictive.

















Safe travels everyone!
PB

[78466noM]

Glad to see you are enjoying Patrick he is looking awesome

[Mustang]

You both have seen through a rather previously rotten wreck( know the feeling) well done!!!!
I hope the kitchen flood did no damage.
Let the good times roll.

EDIT:
Post some of your travel stories under "Who's on the Road"

[tasmillard]

What a tremendous result! The pleasure is now to use and enjoy. Teething issues will always be the case when doing a resto, glad you got it sorted.

[Deleted]

Very neat, now it is time to enjoy it.

[atefooterz]

Excellent you guys are into the imo more exciting part. fine tuning anything from a backpack to a caravan is an artform and black science! Getting a feeling for what to bring or leave at home can be gained via practice or a coin toss. Any funny niggle feelings should be allowed for and that thing dragged along, unless it includes kitchen sink plus taps .
In my travels i have pondered this water issue and asked most service centres about water. If not drinking it then dragging around 1KG per litre seems silly. Unless you are visiting drought affected places most seem more than happy for up to 100litres to share for free, always offer or just give or buy something. For drinking or fussy kettle boilers those $10 for 12ltr + supermarket deals are good.
One trip to the UK i took along a current TV week mag, a few months later swapped it for a tank of petrol to an obsessed Home & Away/ Neighbours fan, i had almost tossed it in the hotel bin at the stopover in Osaka on the way there.

[greedy53]

a very good mate has a early 1960 van for the life of me i can't remember it's make,any way he had some wood rot ,he found a bunnings item that was spray or paint on stuff that turned rotting timber solid again bloody great stuff i'll see if i can get the name of it

[atefooterz]

Nov 15, 2016 19:32:36 GMT 10 greedy53 said:

a very good mate has a early 1960 van for the life of me i can't remember it's make,any way he had some wood rot ,he found a bunnings item that was spray or paint on stuff that turned rotting timber solid again bloody great stuff i'll see if i can get the name of it

Sounds like Everdure or a variation. It is a thin penetrating epoxy solution.

[Patrick Bruce]

So today we say goodbye to Patrick Bruce and wish his new family many awesome adventures.

Seems this caravan reno thing is contagious and we’ve found ourselves the excited owners of a 1978 Viscount Explorer in original condition. Woot! Bring on the next paint splashed, sika stained, grazed knuckles effort. See you all on the next thread 😬😳😁

[bobt]

Hi there Patrick Bruce..

Congrats on the new purchase. I hope you will share pics of your progress.

Whats its name??

[cazbar]

Hi there. I love your work. Congrats on the sale and the new van. I will be using some of your tips in our own snipe repairs. My wife was just talking about a splash back today. Good luck and thanks for a great read.