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Post by kharde on Nov 24, 2014 11:35:27 GMT 10
Hi All, Thank you to everyone on this forum. I have been regularly reading everyone's advise (and giving some of my own advice from now and then) and leaning on this knowledge to complete (well 1 week from completion) my van. I'm about to tow the ManVan to the Engineers to legally increase the ATM. It's already registered so I can "drive it around"... but wanting the double check just in case. So onto my van. It was a pile of "crp....ahem... gem.." when I bought her. Windows all smashed in, door falling off, hatches blowing off, rust everywhere, but it had an aluminium frame, so renovation was possible without worrying about structural issues. I sandblasted it, rust proofed the chasis then completely gutted the inside keeping the minimum (floor, windows, etc). Can't find the original photos (at the moment... they're somewhere), but here are the ones of it renovated  (Exterior: Has lightweight bag awning, marine grade keyless combination entry and external table)  Kitchen with 12V exhaust fan and fire-proofed corner for portable butane cooker, Microwave and Portable Reverse cycle air-conditioner (Kogan), built in with an enormous air vent to the exterior (this is the key with portable a/c)... A/C can be easily removed to clean vents/ service, etc.  Full size fridge (Liquid nailed in place, but also removeable) and to the left of it is a toilet cubicle with a porcalin 12V cartridge toilet (important for my wife). Note: I had to increase the height of the flooring of the toilet cubicle to fit it into the curved section of the van's front end  Ample light-weight storage with full size single beds up top (telescopic ladder to get up) and a under it is a double futon sofa that folds out to be a "king-size" double bed (joins up with bench beside it to increase size)  Kitchen table - we will use fold-out chairs to sit around it... but envisage we will be eating out under the awning most nights. Added extras: * Power is switchable to 12V 40aHr battery * Has 12V water pump and a 40L water tank. * Battery will charge from the car's tail lights (steps up to 14V to do this AND from 240V mains). * Has a 16GB multimedia network with free-to-air TV on the network - kids can watch TV or stored movies from their wireless tablets. * All the old mastic has been cleaned out and van has been fully re-sealed using roofing silicone. * Walls are wall-paper over 2nd had boat ply (the whole van practically came from eBay to keep costs down) * Roof and walls are fully insulated using non-conductive, fire-retardant shed insulation Quick question: Does much go wrong with wheels. The wheel rims look very old, rusted and alittle dented, debating if I should just replace the bearings and tyres... or do the full wheel at the same time?? Anyway, let me know what you think, or can post some suggestions/ concerns that I need to be wary of. I have other photos, but website will only allow 5 photos/ post. Once again, thank you very much to this website... the information was invaluable |
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Post by viscount6116 on Nov 24, 2014 12:20:50 GMT 10
Gday Kharde Nice van mate ! With regard to getting a payload upgrade a lot will depend on what the new tare weight is after your modifications as well as what the axles, tyres, rims , bearings ,hubs and chassis are rated at. Also if the GTM (max load allowed on axles ,bearings . hubs, rims and tyres )including payload is above 2000 kg all wheels must be braked (I think the brakes must be electric) as well as a breakaway switch installed. Once you have the weighbridge dockets for Gtm ,tare and ball loading empty you can probably compare this with whats on your existing rego papers and you will have a much better idea of what needs to be done if anything ! With regard to the rusty rims ,well after all your hard work if they are originals and rusted as bad as the rest of the rust you have fixed then if it was me the old ones would be gone and replaced with new ones. I suppose now days you can buy new rims with the new LT tyres already fitted which in some cases is cheaper than buying the components separately (google is your friend here)...just make sure that the tyres are not old stock Cheers Andy  |
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Post by kharde on Nov 24, 2014 12:36:47 GMT 10
Thanks for your input Andy.
Registration papers say the van is 1978 - which is wrong, the van is 1974 (evident by the Chasis number A48920) and say the current ATM is 1350. The van now has a a towball weight of 150kg, so I'm guessing the Van should be around 1500kg as all the heavy stuff is at the front of the van (and the draw bar is SHORT!!) Official weigh bridge reading next week will tell though. It better not be around 2 tonne otherwise our ol car (Santa Fe) will be unable to tow the van.
The caravan currently has mechanical brakes, hopefully they will suffice. Leaning in the direction of replacing the rims though as you suggested (they look pretty bad).
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Post by kharde on Nov 24, 2014 13:04:26 GMT 10
Actually, is there any easy way to see what load each axle can take (or typically what they are able to take). Seeing my van is dual axle, can I simply add the two axle loads together to work out the total GTM the axles can take?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 13:54:51 GMT 10
Hi Kharde
I just recently bought a Millard Pop top and at the time I mis-read the GTM on the rego papers, long story short my van is lighter then first thought but this had me looking into Tare/ATM/GTM etc on caravans and I spoke with a guy who does car modifications for a living and this is in relation to qld rego rules OK. You need to weigh the van to get the correct Tare weight - that is with the gas bottle in place but empty, the water tank in place but empty, the toilet and hot water systems in place but empty no clothes or food or any items that are not attached to the van permanently. You go to the weighbridge and get the Tare weight and then you can either go to a private certified engineer or to your local rego office and ask if they can or do they have someone who will inspect your van and give you a GTM or ATM. Now this is where lots fall down if your axles are rated to 750KGs but the tyres are only rated to 500kgs then your GTM/ATM will be locked to the lower weight not the axle but the tyre. So before you go and get your van's ATM/GTM make sure your tyres and or springs, bearings, axle etc are all in the same class.
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Post by kharde on Nov 26, 2014 0:23:26 GMT 10
Cheers, there's a caravan reno place in Caboolture (alittle drive from Brissie) that work hand in hand with a few private certifier engineers. I'm going to take the trip up there soon. Just waiting on my car suspension upgrade (this Friday) so I can tow a 150kg towball mass. The I will need to
i) Get new tyres (the previous owners put car tyre on the van... only rated to 330kg each!!)
ii) weigh bridge reading
iii) Tow to the Van to Caboolture to let someone alittle more experienced go over the potontial safety hazzards I may have introduced.
Fingers crossed it all checks out
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 12:04:08 GMT 10
Cheers, there's a caravan reno place in Caboolture (alittle drive from Brissie) that work hand in hand with a few private certifier engineers. I'm going to take the trip up there soon. Just waiting on my car suspension upgrade (this Friday) so I can tow a 150kg towball mass. The I will need to i) Get new tyres (the previous owners put car tyre on the van... only rated to 330kg each!!) ii) weigh bridge reading iii) Tow to the Van to Caboolture to let someone alittle more experienced go over the potontial safety hazzards I may have introduced. Fingers crossed it all checks out
Good Luck, lets know how you go.
Cheers
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Post by kharde on Jul 30, 2015 10:09:45 GMT 10
By request from another discussion thread; providing updates/ more info on how my Van is going.
So - the Van has had a real work-out. From
i) unpowered sites - using the battery system)
ii) to 5 degree winters (reverse cycle air-conditioner did beautifully)
iii) to 40 degree summer sites (reverse cycle air-conditioner did beautifully)
The $250 portable Kogan air-conditioner was a damn good investment. Albeit - the cooling in 40 degree summers was far from shopping centre cold; but easily comfortable enough to sit in the van during lunchtime.
---- Arrghh => Will continue once they allocate more space to allow file attachments ---
(Sorry - trying to upload photos but getting error: "Error: This forum has exceeded it's attachment space limit")
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 30, 2015 12:13:10 GMT 10
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Post by Mustang on Jul 30, 2015 19:20:52 GMT 10
Exactly what is so hard about using an outside host?  ?? |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 30, 2015 21:40:16 GMT 10
Exactly what is so hard about using an outside host? ?? Old habits, i mostly prefer to use an onsite one but that is not always the case. |
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Post by kharde on Jul 30, 2015 21:50:04 GMT 10
OK... continuing the update Before Photos The above image shows one of the most water damaged areas of the van (the front window). Everything was rotten out... but when I stripped it - quite a nice looking aluminium frame came up. Atefooterz: Notice the size of the rivet in the top left corner (sorry photo is alittle smudgey)  The above image shows how water damaged the roof vents were. They were totally unusable. The caravan seller bolted them down so he could drive the caravan to my house. As you can see the van was pretty ordinary. AFTER PHOTOSHere are some better after photos....  The above picture shows the full size fridge, microwave, sink, and built in sound system. Behind the wall (beside the fridge) is the flush toilet. Note: I had to raise the floor in that section to get the toilet to sit in the curved section of the front of the caravan.  The throne...  The wardrobes. As you can see there is heaps of storage space  Beside the wardobe is our futon sofa (that folds out to form our bed [it joins up with the bench beside it to become a king size double bed!! The TV flips down from the bunk beds so those sitting on the sofa can watch TV (tablet). The bunk beds above the sofa are full single beds from ikea. There is a telescopic ladder that is used to climb up and down. More photos of the beds...   Kitchen with fire proof corner [stainless steel splashback] for butane cooker, exhaust fan, sink and microwave. Reverse cycle air conditioner is also under the kitchen bench. The dining room table is on the bottom left side of the photo... we use fold out chairs to eat around it (only when it is raining). There are 3 more cabinets above the dining room table (similiar design to those above the kitchen bench). Also the dining room table sits above 3 full drawer cabinets (wire frame cabinets to save weight) for more storage. There is tons of storage in this van.  Outside of the van. The other side has a fold-out bag awning (do not have a photo of that) So there you have my van. Running beautifully at the moment.... family loving the design. |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 30, 2015 23:05:36 GMT 10
Looking great Khardie! Can you rip the side cladding off the rear lower corner to the curve up to where it straightens up at rear window height & post pics please!!! I suspect a curved timber knee corner with alloy straight bits going off, according to someone who used to visit the factory. |
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Post by kharde on Jul 31, 2015 9:55:10 GMT 10
Just checking the area you want to see... is it the frame region where the tail lights on the van are?
If so, that could be easier said than done. I used cheapo hardwood plywood to line my interior; thus when it came to joining the sheets together on the curves - I had to use Silicone to join the sheets (which is permanent). FYI: I managed use bathroom sheet joiners on the flats (which is much nicer looking and maintainable - but I could not use the joiners on the curves).
I can clearly remember the framing in that area so I could draw a diagram of the framing if that helps (just make sure we have the correct region first. Note: The framing is pretty much all aluminium (including the curve). There was alittle bit of timber inside the long aluminium channel that spanned the entire width of the van joining the left side of the van to the right... I think that was solely to stop vibrations....
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Post by doublechevron on Jul 31, 2015 10:48:17 GMT 10
Hi Kharde I just recently bought a Millard Pop top and at the time I mis-read the GTM on the rego papers, long story short my van is lighter then first thought but this had me looking into Tare/ATM/GTM etc on caravans and I spoke with a guy who does car modifications for a living and this is in relation to qld rego rules OK. You need to weigh the van to get the correct Tare weight - that is with the gas bottle in place but empty, the water tank in place but empty, the toilet and hot water systems in place but empty no clothes or food or any items that are not attached to the van permanently. You go to the weighbridge and get the Tare weight and then you can either go to a private certified engineer or to your local rego office and ask if they can or do they have someone who will inspect your van and give you a GTM or ATM. Now this is where lots fall down if your axles are rated to 750KGs but the tyres are only rated to 500kgs then your GTM/ATM will be locked to the lower weight not the axle but the tyre. So before you go and get your van's ATM/GTM make sure your tyres and or springs, bearings, axle etc are all in the same class. Amazing ... why do you guys go to all this effort. I couldn't care any less what numbers are stamped and put all over the place. If I'm happy and satisfied what I'm towing is safe, that's plenty enough for me. There's more chance of me winning tattslotto than there is of anyone ever weighing the attached van and saying "your 150kg overweight" or anything crazy like that. Infact, I think our old vans only list the tare weight. I'd leave it at that, it allows an "open/unrestricted" loaded weight. The old windsor I have is 1560kg empty .... with twin axle electric brakes and sensible layout/weight distrubution of any load, I couldn't be less concerned what the overall weight is It's simply irrelivant. It's not like anyone that's gone through all this bullshit of "upgrading" weights will actually records and track the full loaded weight of the caravan at any point in time either way. seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by kharde on Jul 31, 2015 12:09:53 GMT 10
ATM, towball mass, etc: You are probably correct if you are experienced and have an overkill car like a Landcruiser or Navara - a non-issue.
BUT - I'm a newbie (well was 12 months ago) and felt I needed some safety benchmark to introduce myself to towing caravans. Also considering my car is not a big Landcruiser or Navara (I have a close match being a 2.2L turbo deisel Santa Fe now with upgraded suspension to cater for 150kg towball mass).... I like some engineering masses to doublecheck my guesses.
I did read though; if you ever get into an accident (heaven forbid); there first thing the insurance companies check is to ensure you are not overloading your van.....
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 31, 2015 12:59:14 GMT 10
Cheers Kharde, yes a diagram would be cool, the outer corner area is from the rear of the wheel arch up to the rear window ( straight then curve) i am interested in approx size of channel & if the curve to match the rear was bent (rolled) or cut & welded. In NSW the rego has the Tare & Agg weight so mine shows 950KG approx dry and max 1500KG, so if i get pulled over and weighed, like i saw at a few Roads&Maritime random checkpoints, then if i am under the 1500KG total all is good. I do not know if they upgrade specs on pink slip renewals as mine started from scratch being unregistered & from interstate. y btotal weight was based on the axle spec! OT/ One for Shane, my mate is camping in Poland this week with some other crazy folks..  |
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Post by Mustang on Jul 31, 2015 19:23:02 GMT 10
Looks like you have worked hard & the family is enjoying the van, that is the main reason for our hobby, well done.
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Post by kharde on Jul 31, 2015 21:57:42 GMT 10
Cheers Mustang. The best thing is.. .every caravaner near us is intrigued by our van... meet lots of pple on our journeys atfooterz: Hope this helps alittle, here is a diagram (side on) of the rear bottom corner of our van. When the channel is straight, the sides of the channel are smooth - however when the channel curves the channel sides become very wavy/ bumpy/ crinkled... I tried to find a photo (but could not.. .sorry)  Hope this helps... |
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Post by atefooterz on Jul 31, 2015 23:24:23 GMT 10
Thanks SO much Kharde that is awesome. Thelowest area is what i will replace the straight then curved beam from wheel arch to just below where you show cross member.So down the track if anything leaks it will not be an issue for those who hate timber frames. All the other timber is top rate so i have sanded & varnished what i have exposed so far.
Nothing like a good size classic to get folks talking, now they are used to seeing the tear drops & bondwoods around. Anything out of the white box ordinary should get due credit.
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Post by kharde on Aug 1, 2015 21:00:40 GMT 10
Yes => When I stripped my van; the amount of wood rot down there was unbelievable. They framing (aluminium channel) was squeaky clean though
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Post by atefooterz on Aug 1, 2015 21:13:31 GMT 10
The huge issue that some manufacturers then especially later garage boffins do, is to not understand that if water can get out quickliy and the inside has constant ventilation then no/ minimal rot will occur. All this tightly locked up and sealing under, without fixing up top leak issues first can be a killer for poor ol timber structures of any kind. Other things can be going away wet or hot weather with condensation then locking up all that mositure inside then a few months later finding a heart break, the results similar to packing away a wet tent.
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Post by kharde on Aug 2, 2015 14:24:46 GMT 10
100% agree. Admittedly my van was aluminium frame => But I could visibly see the water tracks down the side of the van... yet there was minimal rot on the sides (sheeting).
BUT: On and under the flooring (especially near the front and back of the van where the water was allowed to pool (beneath the ply flooring.... )) The rot was terrible. One night, I sat in the van (when it was stripped) in the middle of a storm.. and saw exactly where the water was pooling - surprise surprise this is where the worst rot was.
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Post by atefooterz on Aug 2, 2015 14:28:41 GMT 10
Do not underestimate cooking in a caravan without an extractor that exists the cabin. I see many boiling pasta, rice stews etc and all that steam goes somewhere... usualy downwards as cold droplets after being a floating hot mist.
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Post by greedy53 on Aug 2, 2015 16:44:30 GMT 10
the aircon you are using is like mine a portable ,i found while in Darwin that an extra inlet vent was needed as the area around the aircon intake wS A BIT RESTRICTED,only a 5x5 inch flap wAS CUT INTO THE SKIN RIGHT WHERE THE INTAKE FOR THE AIRCONS OWN AREA WAS STOPPED THE AIR GETTING HOT,when the unit was used in a room there was no restriction on the intake area,have a good time with your toy
steve
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