1977 Coronet poptop H15666

[Deleted]

Hi all, I'm going to reseal my caravan and realize I have a lot of work ahead of me.
every seam had layers and layers of silicon and some kind of bog stuff. I have stripped 90% of it so far and have a 15 litre bucket half full of the old silicon I have removed.
any suggestions how to remove the last of the silicon?

also I have come across a couple issues with the brackets that hold the pop top roof up, the screws on a couple of them were very loose and the only thing holding them there were the massive amount of silicon plastered everywhere. I'm a bit concerned at what I'm going to find under the roof, Im assuming the timber has gotten wet over the years and possible rotted.
I have never revealed a caravan before and am only going by what I have read on the Internet ( this forum is brilliant)

another thing I would love to do is replace the old vinyl stone guard with aluminum check plate, Any suggestions.

I have read through one members thread that did his caravan up and resealed (sorry cant remember his name) I'm pretty much following what he did, I'm am greatful for all the photos.

anyway any help and suggestions would be appreciated

Mandi

[youngdazza]

Hi Mandy

I have gone through this myself and know how difficult it can be to get the last of the silicon off. With the silicon I personally used a small piece of rigid flat plastic (about 10cm of a plastic ruler that had broken off). I assume you have so much silicon because a previous owner had a water leak and in desperation lathered everything with a think coat of silicon. My advice is take off every moulding and every last screw before reapplying the sealant.

And yes its quite likely that any wooden frame near the leak(s) would be rotten. A little bit of rot is somewhat to expected with a van of this age but if its a lot you might be wise to take a panel or two off to assess the situation. Its obviously a lot easier to do this while the silicon is off.

I personally havent done the checkerplate for the stone guard but I think the main difficulty would be bending it to the correct curved shape. A 7-foot wide checkerplate sounds quite tricky to handle let alone curve evenly?

[Deleted]

Well further investigation has revealed what I thought, the timber has rotted and easily breaks off with my fingers, so it will need replacing completely . Oh dear I think I might have bitten off more than I can chew. But I'm not going to leave it as is. My brain is ticking over thinking about what I need to do. I'm no carpenter so might need to find someone who can give me a hand, but I will tackle as much as I can on my own. I'm thinking I will need to remove the poptop roof and sleeve, then strip the inside of the van to reveal the damage that needs fixing, I have a feeling the more I remove the skin the more damage I will find. could end up being a full male over of the whole van lol.
oh well it's under cover and we could be camping in tents at Christmas .
im slowly removing all the last of the silicon before I remove the side moulding.
Any suggestions how to remove the brackets (what ever they are called) that hold the roof up without them springing open completely and breaking a finger or two? I was thinking maybe some fencing wire threaded at the top and bottom to hold them the size they are now with the poptop up (any suggestion)

[Deleted]

I think I should change the title of this post to Rebuilding my 1978 Coronet caravan. I have pulled off one side of the moulding and found the front bottom corner timber frame also very rotten and disintegrated . I can't just pretend I didn't see it and put everything back together. I'm afraid it has to be fixed.
But how do I go about it? Do I need to strip the inside of the caravan to get to the timber frame to fix the problems? This is all new to me and I don't know what I'm doing, I just wanted to fix the leaking problem and reseal the caravan, not rebuild. Oh well I'm going to have to learn quick

[youngdazza]

Aug 31, 2013 11:54:42 GMT 10 @dede said:

I'm thinking I will need to remove the poptop roof and sleeve, then strip the inside of the van to reveal the damage that needs fixing,

If theres no visible water damage inside then you'll probably find it easier to take the cladding off the outside of the van to access the frame. I've read that they usually build caravans from the inside out - ie install the furniture, then the interior wall lining and finally the exterior cladding.

Although if theres no bad damage to the interior walls and if the frame doesnt appear to be sagging, and the only problem is the frame around the pop-top lifters then maybe you could just fix that section for now. If you do decide to go down the path of replacing every bit of rotten wood in an old van you might end up effectively dismantling and rebuilding the van from the ground up. You can read about many people who have done just that in this forum.

Cheers

[ForumMod]

G'day Mandi,

It's worthwhile thinking about whether you really want to go down the path of pulling the van apart and fixing the bad bits up. Too often these projects become all-consuming and people lose interest, or too many other things in life keep getting in the way of you finding time to work on the van.

Never be disappointed in admitting it's beyond your capabilities. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and run, otherwise you could end up with a van pulled apart and no real idea about how to go about putting it back together. A van pulled apart is not really worth much to anyone, except for spare parts.

An option for you is to quit the project now, and sell it for whatever you can get for it in its present state. That may sound like a "waste of your money", but the reality is that if you continue with the project, there's no guarantee you'll get back all the money you spend fixing it, and there's certainly no guarantee you'll get back the value of the time you spend on it.

The most successful people on this forum are those who really "like the idea" of working on an old caravan to bring it back to a much better condition. You also need to have plenty of time to work on the van (up to 12 months is a minimum, depending on how much work is required), and you need to have the spare dollars for all the bits and pieces required.

If you decide to grit your teeth and start plugging away on the van, we'll certainly help you with any questions along the way.

And yes, the scissor lifts (or canopy lifters) for the poptop roof have to be tied to stop them springing back open when they are disconnected from the van. You need some strong wire, or strong rope, because they have quite a bit of springyness when they've opened up a bit.

Good luck, whichever way you decide to go.

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Thanks for that information Global Moderator, I really appreciate it. I do like the idea of fixing the caravan up and I don't want to sell it and give up even though there is a lot of work to be done and my time is limited with family and work and running a picture framing business at home as well. But I think I wil just potter at it until I get it all fixed. My main concern is that at present the van is under our carport and is parked in the middle so as I can keep the pop top up which mean our cars are out in the weather. I think once I have the pop top off I will move it back to the side so at least one car can park back under the car port again. I think I will use some fencing wire to secure all the scissor lifts then remove the poptop sleeve and then the roof it self then go from there. I will try and do as much as I can myself then pay someone to do the timber framing part and any other issues I can't handle myself. I'm going to start taking photos of the progress as I think that would be interesting to look back on. Looks like camping will be in tents this year. And I think I may as well give the caravan a complete make over as I go to make it more modern, as If I'm going to put this much effort In I won't be selling it in any hurry

[Deleted]

Here's a photo of the frame rot under the outer skin
I had a male friend have a look to see if he could give me a hand but he went running when he seen it
Oh well looks like I'm on my own

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[ForumMod]

G'day Mandi,

I'm not surprised your friend ran for his life when he saw the woodrot. It's a sure sign there's been water leaking into the van for quite a while.

With that amount of woodrot, you will need to check down the bottom where the frame meets the chassis. I suspect you'll find some serious damage to the steel chassis at that point.

The top three threads on this forum dealing with extensive restorations of poptops are these three:

1978 Viscount Grand Tourer poptop - 81649

1977 Millard poptop MM2867

1977 Millard pop-top 14ft MM1399

In amongst those threads you should find some quite useful information about the types of repairs that were necessary, and how the owners went about fixing the problems.

Happy reading!!

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Oh my goodness, thanks so much for those links GM, wow Im scared to reveal the true extent of the damage to my van, might end up turning the whole think into a big bomb fire instead. Oh well I can't turn back now, I will solder on

[Deleted]

Had a chance to do a bit to the caravan today, all side mouldings are off, took front window out, stripped stone guard vinyl off completely, took bottom front cladding off and removed pop top sleeve and roof. The rot to the bottom corners is bad on the right side but not to bad on the left front, and the rest of the timber frame looks really good so far.
Hopefully will start taking the roof cladding off tomorrow to see what needs replacing up there (which will be most of the frame I'm thinking.

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[ForumMod]

Well, you're certainly getting stuck into it!!

Judging by the condition of the Coronet sticker above the front window, your van seems to be in quite good conditon, notwithstanding the woodrot in it. I always think a van with its original stickers in pretty good condition is an indication that the van hasn't been exposed to the weather for any great length of time during its life. The other thing that struck me when you posted your first photo was how shiny the side cladding looked, which is another indication that the van has been out of the sun for more time than it's been in it. It'll be interesting to see how good the original paintwork is on the roof.

If you were ever going to spend your time and money fixing up a van, the one you've got is the sort of van I would be putting on my shortlist, based on what I've learnt over the last 5 years.

Keep at it. Sometimes it'll be a hard slog, but slowly-slowly works wonders.

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Sept 7, 2013 20:47:18 GMT 10 ForumMod said:

Well, you're certainly getting stuck into it!!

Judging by the condition of the Coronet sticker above the front window, your van seems to be in quite good conditon, notwithstanding the woodrot in it. I always think a van with its original stickers in pretty good condition is an indication that the van hasn't been exposed to the weather for any great length of time during its life. The other thing that struck me when you posted your first photo was how shiny the side cladding looked, which is another indication that the van has been out of the sun for more time than it's been in it. It'll be interesting to see how good the original paintwork is on the roof.

If you were ever going to spend your time and money fixing up a van, the one you've got is the sort of van I would be putting on my shortlist, based on what I've learnt over the last 5 years.

Keep at it. Sometimes it'll be a hard slog, but slowly-slowly works wonders.

cheers,
Al.

I must admit that the van is in not to bad condition, although I did polish it when we first got it
The sticker on the back is not as good condition but its still there, the cladding has quiet a few dents with one big one above the wheel arch. I'm considering replacing the cladding but still not sure.
Concerned with the top cladding which has quiet a few holes in it from where previous owners have repositioned the scissor lifts several times because the timber is rotted underneath and the screws wouldn't hold. They even used double sided tape on one scissor lift and a bucket full of black silicon
Another scissor lift they used a nut and bolt which was located right through on the inside of the van to try and hold the scissor lift.
The more issues I find the more I realize that the previous owner know about the problems but patched it up and sold it to some sucker (me) oh well I'm enjoying the challenge and so far I think I can do it all myself with maybe a little help here and there when needed.

[ForumMod]

G'day Mandi,

I personally would try and keep as much of the original parts on the van as I could, only because it's a real pain trying to find replacement parts. If the cladding is just buckled or dented on the body, and not split, it can be panelbeated back into shape with a bit of care. If you were going to replace it, what would you replace it with? And if you were going to replace it, you'd have to take the old stuff off anyway, so why not explore the option of panelbeating? You've got nothing to lose by at least giving panelbeating a go. This cladding is fairly easily knocked back into a reasonable-looking finish, even with the type of profile that's on your van.

The smaller dents showing in the rear cladding (in your photo above, where you've pulled back the cladding on the corner to show the woodrot underneath) are a cinch to knock out with a bit of timber and a rubber hammer. Sure, you have to take the cladding off to do it, but it is possible if you want to go to that extent.

The larger dent showing above the wheel arch on the door side would take longer to fix, but is also worth trying if you want to.

For the roof cladding around the poptop, you could get away with fixing some new L-shaped strips of white painted aluminium around the opening and pop rivetting them to the existing roof cladding. That'd save you having to replace the whole roof.


On a totally different subject...is there a chassis number welded on the drawbar anywhere? I'd like to change the title of this thread and include the chassis number if possible, and then I'll transfer the whole thread over to the Hall Of Fame section, where you can keep adding to it as you work through the restoration.

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Ok a couple things, firstly the year of the van is 1977 not 78 like I thought. And the Cassis number is H15666, I noticed under the cladding in a couple of places written 666 on the timber.

[Deleted]

Finally got to do a little bit more the the caravan. The right side frame around the pop top needs a complete replacement as you can see in the photo.
Also took another window out and the vent covers for the fridge ready to take the cladding off.

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[Deleted]

Actually the cladding is in pretty good condition on this side. I'm going to try and keep it as original as possible where I can on the out side. And keep the repair costs to a minimum and do as much as possible of the work myself.

[youngdazza]

Looks like you've been busy. That wood up top looks pretty rotten indeed. You have to wonder, once the water got in (and by the look of it quite a lot got in) where did it go from there? Do you think it traveled along the top then down the corners (where you saw the other rot)? In my van I found that a water leak in the top corner traveled down the corner then across the back end of the van (all fixed now though).

Cheers

[Deleted]

Youngdazza I would say your right. Will know more once the rest of the cladding is off. It's a slow process here as I can't work on the van often because of other commitments. But it's under cover and slow and steady wins the race (I hope)

[Deleted]

I'm getting there slowly. The timber frame work is in pretty good condition in most areas. The worst damaged areas shouldn't be too hard to replace. I still have the door side panels to remove before I will get someone to come and give me a quote to replace the damaged frame.

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[youngdazza]

Its hard to see the photo in much detail, but it looks like theres very little wood rot, which is great! Regarding the frame I bet that wood is 1 inch thick, which is something you cant get at most hardware stores, but a good timber yard should be willing to cut down a few lengths for you. Then its just a matter of cutting out the rotten bits of frame and cutting new bits of timber to take their place. I suggest that you attach the new timber to the old timber with a small offcut and some pva glue + screws.
Cheers

[Deleted]

Here are a few more photos (close up) where you can see the damaged areas.

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And more

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[Deleted]

I managed yesterday to remove all the cladding, so the caravan is completely naked now.
I have the carpenter coming tomorrow afternoon to give me a quote on repairs. Will see what he thinks and go from there. So far every other male had run the other direction when I have asked for help lol. Hopefully this guy will have no issues. . I would love to do it all myself but I'm a bit unsure where to start and to make sure it's structurally sound.
The roof sides look to me to be sagging inwards a tad, I'm guessing because the timber is damaged and given way a bit over the years.

Here's the door side

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[ForumMod]

G'day Mandi,

Ask the carpenter to have a good look at the design of the timbers supporting the poptop opening at both the front and rear of the opening. I think the design of the framework in both these areas can have a lot of bearing on whether the poptop sags or not. In the Millard poptop I restored, the roof was certainly "dished" around the poptop area, particularly on the overhead kitchen cupboards side, where there's no support from the floor of the van. On the other side (the door side), the wardrobe provided support to the roof framework, so sagging wasn't such a big deal on that side. I personally think there should be at least two pieces of timber framework butted together at both the front and rear of the opening, and both pieces should span the full width and be interlocked with the side wall framework.

A poptop roof of the size of yours has a typical total weight of about 70kgs, so the framework around the opening needs to support that weight without sagging. Any sagging in the roof will obviously mean water puddles in the sag and doesn't flow away properly, and that's something you definitely don't want on the roof of a caravan.

The overall job shouldn't even be a challenge for the carpenter, so hopefully the cost side of things works out ok for you.

cheers,
Al.