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Post by noremac on Jan 7, 2017 18:24:29 GMT 10
Thanks for the info guys....very helpful. I have a Hayman Reese Medium WDH already, unfortunately when I went to fit it the chain clips for the A-Frame sat under where the Gas bottles were rest. Anyway out came the Grinder and then the Mig and I have now moved them as far back as I can on the Draw Bar and this allows the brackets the room, plus I think it has tidied it up. You can see in the pic where the Gas Bottle holder was compared to now by the tabs on the draw bar that are still remaining. I'm going to set the WDH up tomorrow hopefully and take it for a test drive to see how the Pajero handles with it, its not to bad now but it can only make it better. I'm also hoping moving those back slightly will help with the weight on the ball.....if even only minimal.   On the pic above, you can see the modification I did to the Handbrake handle to allow the Pajero's rear door to swing open to access my ARB fridge and boot without having to unhitch the van. I also took a pic of the plumbing I did for the direct mains water line to the mixer tap and the tap on the draw bar.   I have plumbed the direct mains pressure into the cold side of the mixer, when I put a 240V pump on board ill plumb that through the hot side so that it can draw from the tank or mains depending on what source I have available. Anyway let me know your thoughts Cheers Cam |
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Post by tasmillard on Jan 7, 2017 20:09:17 GMT 10
Cam, I think your work improved it... means bottles are slightly further back (would take some grams of weight off the ball lol) to give more room. I have a similar issue with my Land Rover rear door, not having the room to clear the bits. Like the idea of water supply, ill keep an eye on what you do as I'm looking at options for when I fit a tank and also shower in future.
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Post by noremac on Jan 7, 2017 21:14:43 GMT 10
Yeah undecided if I'll fit a shower. The back section has allocation for 4 bunks and I have removed the top ones. I could install one again and have the kids on one side of the van and build a toilet/shower on the other side quiet easily. I wasn't planning on installing hot water but I guess it's quite feasible. That and a diesel heater would make a big difference to my camping spot potential.
After modifying the hand brake lever the door opens all the way out to the gas bottles now so heaps of room. It's made life much easier.
Would it be worth upgrading the brakes to electric?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 22:52:13 GMT 10
Hi note mac,
That model was available with a shower originally,two bunks on roadside past robe,2 bunks across back wall forming an "L" shape,then dressing table and shower cubicle curbside up to dinette wall.
You only need to add one window to shower and the rest stays the same.
Cheers
hughdeani
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Post by noremac on Jan 8, 2017 18:12:47 GMT 10
Hi note mac, That model was available with a shower originally,two bunks on roadside past robe,2 bunks across back wall forming an "L" shape,then dressing table and shower cubicle curbside up to dinette wall. You only need to add one window to shower and the rest stays the same. Cheers hughdeani Oh great info...would love to see a pic of that, though id imagine it would be almost impossible to track one down. I'm assuming you have to add the window just to allow ventilation and if so, would it be better to go down a hatch with a 12volt extraction fan in it (though id imagine this is more expensive). |
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Post by snoops on Jan 8, 2017 19:11:07 GMT 10
Yeah, 10% for the tow ball weight seems to be what most people say. Mine is pretty much spot on that at 120Kg. I'd be aiming at around 150Kg for yours. The Pajero should handle 150Kg easily.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 19:48:01 GMT 10
The TD Pajero has a specs (new model) of 180KG on the ball, however, when towing at 2500kg or less the maximum tow ball download increases to 250kg, Mitsubishi says !? Better ask the dealers or read the owners manual. It is important to add the weight of the WDH to the weight of the ball put by the van. Some of the WDH weight up to 50KG  |
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Post by doublechevron on Jan 9, 2017 11:14:24 GMT 10
Move the spare and the annexe to the back under the bed and you will improve on the ball weight. Try to keep the ball weight not over 10% and not less than 7% Have a look the tug specs just in case that you need to use a weight distribution hitch. I run a WDH because it is what Mitsubishi ask for ball weight over 90 Kg on the Magna. I always put the heavy stuff over the axle, not at either end. I don't care to much about tongue weight, so long as there is enough of it there. I only put very light weight stuff behind the axle. Have a look at a modern european 'van. They go to the extreme of mounting the spare tire and gas bottles over the axle and not putting front or rear boots on them (so people can't load heavy weights into them). seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by snoops on Jan 9, 2017 19:55:04 GMT 10
Yep, 100% agree Shane. I've only got the bed behind the axle and all the heavy stuff is over the axle. I chuck the spare on the floor in the middle of the van and a few other things as well when I'm towing it then just move them out when I get there.
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Post by noremac on Jan 10, 2017 13:51:00 GMT 10
Yep, 100% agree Shane. I've only got the bed behind the axle and all the heavy stuff is over the axle. I chuck the spare on the floor in the middle of the van and a few other things as well when I'm towing it then just move them out when I get there. It's very hard to know exactly which want to go about things....you just read so much mixed information about the imprtanc of ball weight, then boy, then weight over axles, weight balanced to the rear also. I generally have been putting my Weight over the axles as it makes sense to my brain from a mechanical point of view. But so does balancing it to a point. Some great info and plenty of ideas. I'm thinking about mounting the spare underneath on a lift or slide of some form, I was contemplating a bumper of some form but it seems to be not so accepted based off weight transfer etc. We are away at the moment giving the van a good run up the east coast of Tas and the kids are loving it. The old canvas style annex and piles weighs a ton so I'm going to look at a better option, we have just been using a gold out gazebo which is light and fast. Maybe a more modern roll out annex? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 20:04:59 GMT 10
Yep, 100% agree Shane. I've only got the bed behind the axle and all the heavy stuff is over the axle. I chuck the spare on the floor in the middle of the van and a few other things as well when I'm towing it then just move them out when I get there. It's very hard to know exactly which want to go about things....you just read so much mixed information about the imprtanc of ball weight, then boy, then weight over axles, weight balanced to the rear also. I generally have been putting my Weight over the axles as it makes sense to my brain from a mechanical point of view. But so does balancing it to a point. Some great info and plenty of ideas. I'm thinking about mounting the spare underneath on a lift or slide of some form, I was contemplating a bumper of some form but it seems to be not so accepted based off weight transfer etc. We are away at the moment giving the van a good run up the east coast of Tas and the kids are loving it. The old canvas style annex and piles weighs a ton so I'm going to look at a better option, we have just been using a gold out gazebo which is light and fast. Maybe a more modern roll out annex? The point of having the weight over the axle is correct but I disagree with Shane of do not care about the weight on the ball. First the percentage of weight on the ball have a lot to do with the towing behavior of the van and second there is a legal issue, the weight on the ball cannot be over the car manufacturer specs of the towbar/towing hitch. If the weight on the ball it is over of the maximum on the towing vehicle specs the load have to be distributed in a manner which will not upset the behavior of the rig and comply with the law and specs. |
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Post by atefooterz on Jan 10, 2017 20:59:41 GMT 10
Yep, 100% agree Shane. I've only got the bed behind the axle and all the heavy stuff is over the axle. I chuck the spare on the floor in the middle of the van and a few other things as well when I'm towing it then just move them out when I get there. It's very hard to know exactly which want to go about things....you just read so much mixed information about the imprtanc of ball weight, then boy, then weight over axles, weight balanced to the rear also. I generally have been putting my Weight over the axles as it makes sense to my brain from a mechanical point of view. But so does balancing it to a point. Some great info and plenty of ideas. I'm thinking about mounting the spare underneath on a lift or slide of some form, I was contemplating a bumper of some form but it seems to be not so accepted based off weight transfer etc. We are away at the moment giving the van a good run up the east coast of Tas and the kids are loving it. The old canvas style annex and piles weighs a ton so I'm going to look at a better option, we have just been using a gold out gazebo which is light and fast. Maybe a more modern roll out annex? My ball weight was just under 10% The main internal damage, from previous owners was from the spare bashing trim down low! So i figured as the thing would most likely be hooked to tug when needing a change, a space in the a frame seemed good. see pic 4th post that page there -> ditzygypsy.proboards.com/thread/2821/franklin-arrow-1976-16ft-w8566?page=2The time i needed it it worked a treat, So far from many highway klm trips no damage to under side, so have not bothered putting a cover under the tyre. |
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Post by tasmillard on Jan 10, 2017 21:11:48 GMT 10
Yep, 100% agree Shane. I've only got the bed behind the axle and all the heavy stuff is over the axle. I chuck the spare on the floor in the middle of the van and a few other things as well when I'm towing it then just move them out when I get there. It's very hard to know exactly which want to go about things....you just read so much mixed information about the imprtanc of ball weight, then boy, then weight over axles, weight balanced to the rear also. I generally have been putting my Weight over the axles as it makes sense to my brain from a mechanical point of view. But so does balancing it to a point. Some great info and plenty of ideas. I'm thinking about mounting the spare underneath on a lift or slide of some form, I was contemplating a bumper of some form but it seems to be not so accepted based off weight transfer etc. We are away at the moment giving the van a good run up the east coast of Tas and the kids are loving it. The old canvas style annex and piles weighs a ton so I'm going to look at a better option, we have just been using a gold out gazebo which is light and fast. Maybe a more modern roll out annex? Have fun up the east coast. If you find any nice spots do tell  . We (9 yo son and I initially) are heading Cockle Creek way next week, been ages since I was last there. The annex is heavy, but you can get light weight poles which helps. Roll out annexe if quick, but its personal taste. I don't really like them on old vans myself but can see how easy and quick they are to set up. |
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Post by snoops on Jan 11, 2017 5:26:02 GMT 10
Yep, 100% agree Shane. I've only got the bed behind the axle and all the heavy stuff is over the axle. I chuck the spare on the floor in the middle of the van and a few other things as well when I'm towing it then just move them out when I get there. It's very hard to know exactly which want to go about things....you just read so much mixed information about the imprtanc of ball weight, then boy, then weight over axles, weight balanced to the rear also. I generally have been putting my Weight over the axles as it makes sense to my brain from a mechanical point of view. But so does balancing it to a point. Some great info and plenty of ideas. I'm thinking about mounting the spare underneath on a lift or slide of some form, I was contemplating a bumper of some form but it seems to be not so accepted based off weight transfer etc. We are away at the moment giving the van a good run up the east coast of Tas and the kids are loving it. The old canvas style annex and piles weighs a ton so I'm going to look at a better option, we have just been using a gold out gazebo which is light and fast. Maybe a more modern roll out annex? Yes, the is a lot of information out there, and some of it incorrect, but I'll confuse the matter a bit more with some science  , which is all backed up by studies and testing. Look at the physics of it - any weight that ends up behind the axle will cause a pendulum effect in the event you have to swerve suddenly or make a lane change too quickly, you can't have nothing back there - unless you get a fith wheeler, because the nose weight will be too high for a towbar, but the more you have back there, the greater this effect will be. Having just what the factory puts there - a bed and a few cupboards is fine and doesn't contribute a huge amount of weight to the van, but that's where I'd leave it. 'Balancing' the load by placing heavy gear to the back of the van is a bad idea as this will increase the pendulum effect greatly - we've all seen videos of caravans rolling after getting a tank slapper happening (sorry for the bike terminology). It's all ok until either the setup and the resonance of the van cause it to start swaying - this usually just limits to speed and makes for a hard time travelling, but worst case is your going over. In every van rollover the driver will always say 'It's always been rock solid until that moment'. It's an accident waiting to happen. look at semi trailers - the wheels are at the back of the trailer - which is ideal and the whole combination is designed for weight over the drive of the truck and on the trailer wheels. no pendulum effect can take place with the axles set so far back. |
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Post by noremac on Jan 11, 2017 14:37:11 GMT 10
It all makes sense and certainly something I'll take note of. I have been placing as much as I can over the axles with some at the rear, I'll now try and put as much as I can over the axles and try to keep the ball weight to 10-12%. I still haven't had the van weighed so I'm not sure exactly what it will be but I can have a guesstimate. The WDH certainly helped but feel it could be better so I have adjusted the angle of the tow ball with the cam lock and will see how that goes on the way home.
When you see a tilt tray carrying a scissor lift etc, they always have it over the axles so it does make complete sense to me. I drive a truck for a living but we can't control where the weight sits with that as its a purpose built machine and it's out of the drivers control. We have that much gear on it that you couldn't choose anyway. A tank slap rings with me as I ride bikes also...
I think a roll out awning will work well for what we want and need as a family. I know it's not period but then again I'm not a purist here and want the van to be as practical as I can for the family. A repaint is in the future jobs and so it won't be factory anyway. I think it could look pretty smart with a roll out if done correctly, just a matter of finding a suitable option which will be the harder task and fitting it
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Post by tasmillard on Jan 11, 2017 21:47:23 GMT 10
This forum is great, lots of knowledge that is shared right here! Enjoy the van with the family, I think this forum represents owners that love the classics but are not bent towards purists, so you get all kinds of opinions and modification ideas, which is great.
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. We (9 yo son and I initially) are heading Cockle Creek way next week, been ages since I was last there. The annex is heavy, but you can get light weight poles which helps. Roll out annexe if quick, but its personal taste. I don't really like them on old vans myself but can see how easy and quick they are to set up. 
, which is all backed up by studies and testing. Look at the physics of it - any weight that ends up behind the axle will cause a pendulum effect in the event you have to swerve suddenly or make a lane change too quickly, you can't have nothing back there - unless you get a fith wheeler, because the nose weight will be too high for a towbar, but the more you have back there, the greater this effect will be. Having just what the factory puts there - a bed and a few cupboards is fine and doesn't contribute a huge amount of weight to the van, but that's where I'd leave it. 'Balancing' the load by placing heavy gear to the back of the van is a bad idea as this will increase the pendulum effect greatly - we've all seen videos of caravans rolling after getting a tank slapper happening (sorry for the bike terminology). It's all ok until either the setup and the resonance of the van cause it to start swaying - this usually just limits to speed and makes for a hard time travelling, but worst case is your going over. In every van rollover the driver will always say 'It's always been rock solid until that moment'.