Caravan rollover caught on a dash cam

[ForumMod]

Something we all hope we never experience...

Caravan rollover


cheers,
Al.

[2lateagain]

Looks a little bit like it was all going ok until the van get level with the front of the truck and the air pressure wave off the truck started it going, not sure what the car is, but maybe it was a bit small also for the size of the van. Have dash cams in all our vehicles now.

Graham

[Deleted]

Lesson to be learnt here. Am I right in thinking the best course of action would be to accelerate to stop the wobble?

[Deleted]

I'm a novice so really keen to hear what you more experienced lot think...

After watching this www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8 I'm not so sure that accelerating is ALWAYS the answer.

It happened to me the other day (first time ever towing) on the Eastern Freeway (Vic) outbound. I'd had a few wobbles sort themselves out, but on one occasion it kept going and slightly increasing in intensity. I'd watched that video before picking up the van, so my instinct was just to back off (but not brake!). I was doing 100kmh and I just took the foot off the the accelerator and let it coast back to about 90kmh and it went back to normal.

It seems to me that there are a few factors at play when wobbles happen... Eg with me I fear my sway bars are too weak (ie bendy/bouncy) and I also think it might be a bit heavy in the rear like the video I linked to above...

I just wonder if accelerating is ALWAYS the best course of action... especially when it may have contributed (as I suspect it did in that dash cam rollover video)...

Experts?

[ForumMod]

I posted the same dashcam video over on the Vintage Caravans forum, so you can read what others have said in that thread, if you like...

Caravan rollover caught on a dash cam


The Admin fella on that forum also posted a link to Bailey's Caravans in the UK, who have a link to a Stability Studies Simulator which might also be of interest to people. You might need to install some "plugins" on your computer to get the simulator to work properly. Just download them from the screen button if you need them.

cheers,
Al.

[snoops]

Learning how to drive with a van on would have been a good start. Too many people who have never towed anything in thier life think they don't have to modify their driving style when they have a van on. I'm not saying that's the only factor, but when I'm towing, I don't find trucks are going too slow or me - I'm normally getting out of thier way. No GPS on that dash cam, so dont know how fast he was going, but personally, I would have stayed behind him - would have saved some fuel too...

Too fast, too little experience, and maybe too bigger van for the vehicle.  Not sure if they had it loaded properly, if the hitch weight was right, etc.  there is something to be said for having electric brakes - even on a smaller, older van.  A slide of the hand control would have helped sort that.

[Deleted]

I know this thread is a few months old but I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth (home sick with the flu so I've got time to run back through these old posts). I've seen quite a few issues with people poorly distributing weight. I'll preface this by saying I'm no expert, but I have read a little into this issue. Poor weight distribution can lead to death wobbles and then to accidents. I was once witness to an accident on the Hume Freeway where a 100 series landcruiser was flipped by a poorly weighted 7*5 trailer. The trailer had got the wobbles and the woman driving panicked and hit the anchors. The trailer and car jack knifed and sent both car and trailer rolling along the side of the Hume at 110KPH. The trailer snapped at the a-frame and ended 15 feet up a tree, while the Landcruiser came to rest on the driver's side with the woman's head out the window and pinned by the B-pillar. Luckily I had a full compliment of 4WD recovery gear+ropes and was able to winch up a little to stop it crushing her to death. The two people in the car survived, but it could have easily gone the other way. Needless to say, from that moment on I've taken load distribution very seriously.

The causes of wobbles are quite complex and I won't repeat them as they are described elsewhere on the internet, except to say that while modern cars have some very nifty engineering to prevent them (ESC, suspension and steering design, chassis design etc), caravans do not. In general, there's only 2 bits of engineering a caravan has to prevent wobbles, and neither of them have anything to do with countering the effects of sway. The first is weight distribution - a slight forward weight distribution reduces the chance of speed wobbles. The second are stabiliser/load distribution bars, which tend to try and reduce the swaying by just restricting movement and widening the load connection point to the car (both fore and aft and side to side. Some suspension design is probably a consideration of manufacturers, too.

A big problem with the current crop of large vans is that fully loaded they weigh around 3 tonnes, but they have only have around 200-250kg ball weight. Not only this, they are very long and high. Together it seems to make them vulnerable to wind buffeting and bumpy roads. Packing the van also plays a part - with such a long van, a little ignorance or absent-mindedness could lead to upsetting the balance by poorly packing the van. Then once on the highway, all it takes is a truck driving the other way or a pot-hole and away she goes. Scary stuff. To make matters worse, people are towing them with vehicles that simply aren't up to the job. A friend of mine is currently towing a 24 foot Jayco Silverline around Aus that weighs over 3 tonnes fully laden with a Jeep Grande Cherokee that weighs 2.3 tonnes and has a towing limit of 3.5 tonnes. It's a vehicle right on the limit. I worry about them a fair bit, but they don't go over 90KPH to reduce the risks.

Tyre pressures are important, too. Incorrect tyre pressure can exacerbate wobbles.

The last thing is speed. Some cashed up people take to caravanning without any experience or instruction and then bang along the highway at 110KPH. This might be ok if they bought a 12 foot caravan and have a decent towing vehicle and good load distribution, but it's not advisable with a 2 tonne car towing a 3 tonne caravan. It's a recipe for disaster.

Anyway, that's enough of a rant for today. The best advice is always: always tow with a suitable vehicle, distribute the load appropriately, and drive to the conditions. It's not a guarantee of safety, but it's better than a lot do.

[Deleted]

Here's one that happened this morning on the Hume near Euroa. Apparently the driver was trying to overtake two B-doubles and got the speed wobbles. Incidentally, this is almost the identical spot to where I saw the rollover described in my previous post.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dFnYuaxVX4

[youngdazza]

I'm gonna be controversial here but maybe they should bring back the 80km/h speed limit for caravans...

[Deleted]

And driver training and correct set up of rigs and tow cars.
I have even seen many van and car combos on here that are diabolical!
Especially newbies that won't take proper advice,and go off on their merry ways without a clue as to the physics involved in towing.
Cheers
Off my soapbox now!
hughdeani

[Deleted]

So to reduce the possibility of this happening I assume it is better to locate heavy items in the front of the caravan to maximise tow ball weight? What Tyre pressures do you guys recommend for a single axle van? This is kind of scary.

[Deleted]

You don't want to overload the front end either because vehicles have a limited capacity to deal with down force. Also, too much weight on the back of the car will unload the front end affecting steering. The general consensus that I've read is about 10% of the loaded van weight as down force on the tow ball (so long as the car can take that much).

[Deleted]

Look at the car in the 1st 1, combination of wrong vehicle doing the towing, popup top was a better solution and speed 2nd 1 looks like a ballast issue likely towing it home from the caravan yard looking how the ute jack knifed.

The car in the 1st video was never designed to tow that type of caravan, speeding up wouldn't of fixed what happen, kind of made me Wondered if there was a f**t in the caravan moving about..
Then again kinda reminds me why a porche Cayman or even a Subaru station wagon isn't a suitable something higher than itself.

id also say the person forgot they were towing a caravan.

i got me doubts they made the vehicle suitable for towing in the 1st place, I if you're bottoming out from just connecting the caravan with no weight in it that then shows me that the vehicle is stock form the showroom and hasn't been modified for towing purposes if they were on their maiden voyage weight displacement is an issue in both vehicle and caravan.

i was cruising YouTube amd blow me down with a feather the Brits have some type of a motoring mag developed around camping and tow rigs, mad me laugh watching them doing tests in all manner of stock standard vehicles I thouhgh to myself I would hate to the idiots on Australian roads with ilequipped vehicles they wouldn't survive on Australian roads had to make me laugh when they someone discussing weight distribution without talking about setting up the tow vehicle for the capacity for towing a caravan kinda made me laugh, whilst the physics might of been a sound though until you discuss the physics of the setup of the tow vehicle it's all piss in wind and bluster, a+b doesn't = c

don't matter if you got a masters doctorint in physics commonsense you should modify the tow vehicle to sit what you are towing rather than rev the nuts out of engine chewing fuel because you fail to set the car up for towing... Got to love the Brits and their stupid notions of capacity and fit for purpose..