Tips for buying a Classic Caravan

[millard1399]

G'day All,
I thought we could put our collective heads together and come up with some helpful information for people looking to buy a Classic Caravan.

Information can relate to anything you think is worthwhile for people to consider when giving a van the "once over".
As we know, vans can be either timber framed aluminium, aluminium framed aluminium, fibreglass shell, or any other combination, so if you have a bit of 'inside information' to share with others, this is the place to do it.

My contribution is based on the 1977 Millard pop-top I have, which is a timber framed aluminium clad van...

Silicone sealant: I would consider this to be the biggest warning bell that is easily seen...



The more sealant there is around the van, the more the alarm bells should be ringing. Definitely a thorough examination required in all places where the sealant is visible.

Woodrot: Sometimes the water damage is readily visible on the inside panelling. But what is NOT readily visible is the damage in the wall cavity to the framework...



Based on my van, the damage in the framework was considerably more than the damage visible inside the van.

Sometimes, the water damage is a bit more subtle, and shows as hairline cracks in the wall panelling...



You can drum your fingers on the panelling to see if there appears to be any separation of the layers of the ply, or if the ply feels 'spongey' when you press on it.

Chassis problems: Broken welds can occur in the chassis, particularly if the van has had a hard life on the road, or has been treated roughly. Areas underneath the van to check would be at the back of the A-frame drawbar members...



...and the step frame...



The step frame on my van had broken welds on both sides at the nearside. I had to weld in some additional pieces of steel to strengthen the framework (the yellow arrow in the photo).

I'll add some more information soon.

cheers,
Al.

[atouchofglass]

A few things to look for in a fibreglass van

Water damage and physical damage are the most likely problems you will find

The musty smell in the van equals leaks

Look under the van ....
Most people will tart up the van - but not under the van
Look for cracks in your chassis or any obvious damage to the shell

Inside overhead cupboards is another good place to look

Any water leaks in a fibreglass van will come from joins such as windows or any holes drilled to allow light wires inside the van

Windows are the most likely cause people are rarely going to do a good job of repairing the leak if they don't know how
They ignore it and sell it when it is too bad

Silicone is your friend.... it tells you ---- there are leaks

Look down the sides and across the front and back of the van
Any damage that has been repaired will stick out as being different to the rest of the van


Cheers
Atog

[bobt]

Well done Al

I was thinking it would be good idea to kick off a what too look for topic.
My contribution: -
One should take a Look down the side of the van to make sure it is true (Straight) I have seen them bent. Some time from overloading and other times from poor construction.

Then there is the floor make sure it does not feel spongy when walking on it. If the underside is not treated it will absorb moisture.

I have come across some vans that have had a tape used to seal around windows and other joins. This stuff is okay for a couple of years if the van is kept under cover but it becomes porous after awhile. It saves time in the construction phase & generates work for the service people later on.


Bob

[millard1399]

Water damage:

These photos are taken from a van listed on ebay, and show water damage on the inside of the van. My experience tells me that this extent of water damage showing on the inside could mean serious damage hidden in the wall cavity...

[keelz]

Ok ill start adding some other points too
1. Check the 3 way fridge works.... This is roughly a $650-$900+ exercise to re-build the cooling unit if it doesn't! . Ask the seller to level up the van and have the fridge running prior to your inspection. Buy a $30 digital thermometer with probe and take it with you. Check the temps of the freezer and fridge compartments.
2. Take a ladder and look at the condition of the roof vents and hatches and the sealing of the main roof trims at the perimeters. If possible water test the roof with hose. I cannot stress how important the comments others have made about traces or evidence of a dodgy 10 minute SILICON fix!!! .
3. Check operation of electric brakes if possible. Connect up to your tow vehicle and you should get a connected status on your controller and also hear the little magnets in those hubs 'hummin' with some voltage applied.
4. Check operation of all the running lights and indicators work. If they don't check with a continuity tester. If the globes are ok but no voltage present indicates you will spend the good portion of a weekend running new cabling and chasing faults in hard to reach places.
5. Tyres - need to budget for replacement of all tyres including spare when considering offer/value you are willing to pay, particularly if old cross plys fitted.
6. Jack up the van and spin the wheels with the handbrake off, check for free-play in the bearings.
7. Check the operation of the rangehood
8. Check the operation of the gas/electric oven.
9. Review condition of the mattresses and lounge foam. Good quality Foam and upholstery work is not cheap. Again, allow/factor this in when you consider how much to offer for the van.
10. Even if you don't see Silicon around the corner trims and windows, look closer and see if the old butyl mastic has dried out and gone hard. Chances are it will leak the first time it rains. This means progressively having to re-seal all trims and windows, again time consuming work.
11. Open, close and lock every window to ensure it's winder mechanism isn't shot and it locks and unlocks ok.
12. Look at the condition of the glazing rubber to all windows. It's costly and time consuming to re-rubber all the glazing panels. Trust me i'm still re-rubbering window by window.
13. Check operation of the 240v lighting
14. Check operation of the 240v power. Does the van have an RCD/Safety switch fitted? Take a simple power point testing device with you and check every single outlet in the van. Available from the hardware store for about $5.
15. Check operation of the 12v lighting circuits (if fitted)

Ask to take the van for a test drive with the owner- will reveal grabbing or non-working brakes, etc, back creaking noises, etc.

ok this is enough for now, will add more later as things come to mind.

cheers

Keelz

[kiwijim]

G'day Keelz,

Thats a lot of very good advise that you have taken time to forward,

It's true, there are hundreds of points to check when considering a caravan purchase, what I have said time and time again is to keep in mind the old saying......... If it's cheap it's probably nasty.

the few points I have to make here concern the law in W.A. governing caravans,
this may or may-not apply in other States, all I can suggest is if anyone is not sure .....ring your local Authority.

1/ Beware of any Air conditioner which is mounted in the front window above the gas bottle, this is now Illegal in W.A.

2/ any power points either inlet or outlet must be no closer than 1.5 mt from the gas bottle.

3/ Gas Hot Water Systems are no longer allowed to be mounted inside caravans, they can only be fitted (by a licensed fitter) inside a metal box which is accessible from the outside of the caravan.

4/ new brake regulations recently came into force here in the West, breaks are now required on anything over 500kg and a break-away system must be fitted if over 1 ton.

5/ duel axle caravans can still be licensed here if they only have brakes on the front axle....providing they were manufactured with front axle brakes only.

6/ the old single regulated (BBQ Type) gas regulators are no longer allowed on caravans, they must now be fitted with the twin regulator which incorporates a gas leak safety cut-off system.

Now a couple of things to look for when buying a van,
talking of Pop-Top vans......a good indication of what sort of life the van has had and if it has traveled on un-sealed roads.....
have a look at the aluminum section above the door,
you will see pop rivets positioned above and each side above the door, check these rivets for separation at the joint usually indicated by loose or missing rivets, if there is movement at this point ( the weakest point of a Pop-Top) there may be a black stain showing at the overlay of the joint, if so ....thats bad.

Spring hangers and shackles are other items which can tell a tale of hard-ship, look closely at the spring hangers, see if they look centered to the bolts, out of center indicates worn bushes,
one way to check for movement in bushes is to jack up the van under the chassis until the wheel is clear of the ground,
then while looking closely at the hangers slowly lower the jack,
any free play will be indicated by the hangers remaining stationary for a second after the spring starts to move toward the rear,
using a large screw driver or pinch bar between the spring eye and hanger is another way to check for movement while the wheel is clear of the ground.
Bearings can be a pain, it is my personal opinion that you disregard a person telling you that he has only recently fitted new bearings especially if they were new a couple of years ago and the van hasn't moved since,
there is a very good chance the bearings will be damaged by condensation and will have very small pitting in the hardening,
these will wear out very quickly, the best thing is to replace all bearing races and cones as soon as you buy the van, if only for your own peace of mind.

thats all from me, I am sure that Keelz will come up with more things to look out for while I scratch the noodle for any more advise.

Happy hunting Folks ........take care and be aware .

kiwijim

[atouchofglass]

One other piece of advice

Don't become emotionally involved with the van

You will likely pay too much


There will always be another van come along, unless it is rare and endangered ....
in which case give me a call.. if it's fibreglass ;D ;D ;D

Many vans can be brought back from the brink... BUT..... count the cost before you do
Not only in money .... time is a cost as well

My project started out as a year long rebuild.... make that 2 years now

Cheers
Atog

[millard1399]

Here's a bit of a reality check for anyone contemplating a restoration...

The following van was listed on ebay during January 2009. Here are some photos of what it looks like now after a full restoration...



And here is an edited version of the listing description...

Weighs nothing and sits lovely behind the car to tow.
Size of the van is 3m long x 1.5 high x 1.9 wide when closed, and 4.8m long and 2m high when open.

This poptop caravan was bought 12 months ago. I paid good money for it only to get it home and find out that it was full of rotten chipboard! Oh dear, what a mess. I pulled everything out of this van and started again. It has a full solid metal chassis and is strong. “Everything but” has been removed, and I have put full marine ply through the floors and cupboards and beds, stainless screws everywhere, and topped it all off with tube after tube of Sikaflex just to make sure. Then all the ply was primed and sealed before the vinyl floor was laid. I lined the walls and ceiling with a ply laminate for easy cleaning. I also have replaced the canvas top, at a cost of $800 alone. The van has a full annex which I have never put up but I think is all there. The outside of the van has been sprayed by me as I am a painter, and was primed before spraying. By all means I am not a caravan builder, but I can say it will last now and looks good for the price. It took me weekend after weekend to do this. I have not included any of the labour cost in my price. I am selling due to a renovation at home and now need the money. There are still a few small things that need doing to finish, that wouldn't take much. I will help in anyway I can just ask, so good luck with your bidding...


Today's contest, boys and girls, is for you to put your valuation on this van. What do you think is a fair price to pay for something like this?? [see below]

Restorer's motto: "Well, we ain't doing this for the money, THAT'S for sure!!"

[the item listed with a starting price of $2900. There were just two bids, and the item sold for $3100. Remember THAT when you are handing over your hard-earned dollars for that old classic van ]

[atouchofglass]

A reality check for sure.....
Really love the work he did on the van too ;D ;D

It is unlikely that any restored van will pay back what it owes you in materials let alone labour.
So it really is a labour of love, doing up old vans

So long as you have a use for them.... I say go for it.
The thrill for me is in the making and I suspect the looks and comments that will come when on the road.

One of the V Vers I met told me that he would regularly have people comment when he pulled up for fuel or even on the side of the road in a town.

Again ... for me it is the skills learnt and the process of making that gives me the greatest thrill.

The cost does come into it .... but ..... a good job is preferable to penny pinching in most areas.

Cheers
Atog

[millard1399]

The key part of the reality check for me was that he "paid good money for it", only to get it home and find out it was a 'dud'. I wouldn't think this guy would be rushing out to buy another van for restoration in any great hurry (...once bitten...). Spending the time and money on the restoration is not an issue for me...it's knowing that I'd paid unnecessary dollars to the seller that's the big issue. Unnecessary dollars that could have been used in the restoration.

My moral of the story is: Make sure you drive a hard bargain. If a fully restored van is only worth a few thousand dollars or so, is the van you're looking at REALLY worth the price they are asking?

cheers,
Al.

[bobt]

The thing that would disappoint me the most is having to sell after all the effort and expense, and not getting the opportunity to get out and enjoy it.

[millard1399]

G'day All,

Having looked at HUNDREDS of photos of caravans recently (collecting for the new Chronicles section), here's my No.1 tip for buying a Classic Caravan, for people who don't want to spend their weekends restoring a van:

The very first thing I would check is to make sure any prospective van had it's brand logos/stickers/transfers/decals in all original positions, and that they were in better than "good condition". If they were missing or faded, I would pass that van up (unless you were getting it for free )

Here are some of the best examples of van condition I've come across in the last month or so...

1. A 17ft Capricorn poptop for $3800 negotiable:



----------------------------------------------------

2. A 10ft Viscount Ambassador (can't remember what it sold for):



----------------------------------------------------

3. A 1977 Millard 16ft for $4000 negotiable:



----------------------------------------------------

4. A 1978 Millard 12ft poptop with a Buy-it-now price of $4999:



----------------------------------------------------

I have some other examples, but you get the idea. If a 30 year old van still has its stickers in good nick, then you can assume it's been looked after during its life (like kept out of the sun). I've noticed that if the outside of a van looks in good nick, then the inside is generally of a very high standard as well.

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Nice. I do like the sticker theory. It should tell a lot from a simple photo.

[keelz]

how nifty does that little Viscount look?! cool

Keelz

[tassietiger]

Hey great information for us novices. The label theory is very interesting. I'll just do and have a look at the pics of one I am thinking about..............Right back and the origianl Millard stickers on still in place as is what look like the stickers for the dealer who sold it originally. It has had two owners. Interesting!!!

[millard1399]

Here's another example supporting my theory about checking the quality of the Logo stickers to help narrow down your selection. This 1973 Viscount Ambassador was purchased in 1973 and used for only a couple of years, before being put into a shed for the next 35 years. Check out the front sticker, and the overall condition of the van. Magnificent!...

[awbeattie381]

This is an excellent post for newbies. Can't beleive I haven't read it sooner! Going to check out a restored 13ft Viscount this weekend so these tips will come in handy!

[doublechevron]

Nov 23, 2008 20:48:39 GMT 10 bobt said:

Well done Al

I was thinking it would be good idea to kick off a what too look for topic.
My contribution: -
One should take a Look down the side of the van to make sure it is true (Straight) I have seen them bent. Some time from overloading and other times from poor construction.

Then there is the floor make sure it does not feel spongy when walking on it. If the underside is not treated it will absorb moisture.

I have come across some vans that have had a tape used to seal around windows and other joins. This stuff is okay for a couple of years if the van is kept under cover but it becomes porous after awhile. It saves time in the construction phase & generates work for the service people later on.


Bob

That's for sure.  There is a 'van for sale for $6500 on a local facebook group at the moment.  It looks really tidy in all the piccies including a very good looking annexe ...................... But, um ......................  Who in there right mind would buy this ...



The whole thing is bent like a banana ....  look at the rear window, it not even straight into the cladding.  That caravans only any good for parts given it's entire structure is bent.

[bobt]

The rear side window makes for an interesting after market add on.

[doublechevron]

My brother found a ripper last weekend. Now this is a modern caravan ... about 2000 .....



He's now looking at importing a pommy 'van 'cos he likes the layout of them.  This one is about $24,000 ....  He reckons it's not real nice and dated inside ('cos he's now used to looking at the pommy 'vans that are so much nicer inside compared to the local stuff).   Anyway, this 'van is very good.  One of the best he's looked at.  Bunks, ensuite, no signs of water damage anywhere (a first).  See the photo above.  He noticed something hanging down a bit.  It turns out the front wall of the caravan has been covered with flooring vinyl.  It looks so good and matches so well he wouldn't have noticed if it hadn't come away a tiny bit at the the top..... So he goes and sticks his head into the front boot and looks up .... .The entire front wall of the van is incredibly rotten.  It needs replacing.

So here's a new one to look out for .... Make sure you "FEEL" each wall and make sure it's not vinyl     It's a brilliant very dodgy way of hiding water damage 'cos it looks perfect and hides completelly hides the ply, no matter how badly damaged it is.  There's osmeone out there obviously "fixing" 'vans like these to make a $$$$

seeya,
Shane L.
PS:  He pointed that out to the owner, and he was stunned.  "what the hell do I do now" ......  My brother said "dunno, if  you can live with youself, sell it without telling anyone

[Mustang]

Feb 26, 2009 19:53:37 GMT 10 millard1399 said:

G'day All,

Having looked at HUNDREDS of photos of caravans recently (collecting for the new Chronicles section), here's my No.1 tip for buying a Classic Caravan, for people who don't want to spend their weekends restoring a van:

The very first thing I would check is to make sure any prospective van had it's brand logos/stickers/transfers/decals in all original positions, and that they were in better than "good condition". If they were missing or faded, I would pass that van up (unless you were getting it for free )

Here are some of the best examples of van condition I've come across in the last month or so...

1. A 17ft Capricorn poptop for $3800 negotiable:



----------------------------------------------------

2. A 10ft Viscount Ambassador (can't remember what it sold for):



----------------------------------------------------

3. A 1977 Millard 16ft for $4000 negotiable:



----------------------------------------------------

4. A 1978 Millard 12ft poptop with a Buy-it-now price of $4999:



----------------------------------------------------

I have some other examples, but you get the idea. If a 30 year old van still has its stickers in good nick, then you can assume it's been looked after during its life (like kept out of the sun). I've noticed that if the outside of a van looks in good nick, then the inside is generally of a very high standard as well.

cheers,
Al.

UUmmmm I think I should have passed "Vincent" when the seller, as he opened the door said, " I can't believe you bought this without looking"

Regarding the good condition photos above, I have a search on ebay & gumtree that alerts me to any new vans like this, in the last two years very few have been listed in this condition.
I suggest if you are going to be super fussy you are going to miss out, most 35yo vans not restored are going to have most of the faults listed above.

[Deleted]

Something that has only recently commenced and buyers need to be aware of is the "replica" classic caravan, in2014/15 a major caravan manufacturer plus some private companies are now building "replica" vans to look just like the classic's from the 70's.

I believe that a homemade teardrop camper recently was placed for sale by it's 3rd owner as a "vintage" when in fact it is only 5 years old and was just built to look the part.

The other tip I would give is time.....it takes a lot of time to repair/recycle/restore any caravan, classis or vintage and the number of stripped vans or half completed vans I have seen go back onto the market because the owners didn't have the time to complete them is a lot ! Unless you wish to pay other people to do most of the work or you have rellies who can work on your project while your busy at work. Then don't buy an older caravan, it takes 100's of hours if not 1000's to get them back into a usable condition.

But in saying that, the sense of achievement when your finished and using your classic caravan is a very good feeling.    

[atefooterz]

I can find links to tear drop replicas but still have not found any 70s style ones, linky or company name please?
Edit: OK i can find glass Sunliner replicas & the Viscount inspired Jackaroo www.caravancampingsales.com.au/content/reviews/2015/jackaroo-caravan-49757 S far non of the builder ads show anything other than vintage or retro style and seem to pride themselves on the points of difference. If someone wants more than $35,000 for a classic looking caravan there is a good bet it is a  reproduction and not original!

[Deleted]

I have to agree 100% with the "sticker" theory  look at my recent purchase it had never been used for even 1 night and kept in a shed for 48 years so the stickers were as the day they were applied as was everything else , do not assume however that a barn find like this does not mean work . It is not major structural work but maintenance stuff like paint touch up cleaning all sorts of things upgrading wiring in many cases springs sag so need replacement re setting chassis parts corrode so need to be cleaned and painted no free lunch but in the end the search is well worth the effort . We searched for months and rejected everything and had been told we were too fussy but not being in a rush paid off bigtime , however when you do find THE one be prepared to grab it quick mine was 1000km away from home I made the decision 4pm monday and drove that night and paid and picked it up at 9am the next morning   

[78466noM]

looking at a van to use strait away I would be looking at
overall appearance
water-stains inside example at corners in cupboards and around ceiling etc millard1399 covers this in great detail
If it has been restored or rebuild the products used inside ply and timber equals good MDF and chipboard equals very heavy and over time a large sponge that can suck up lots of moisture.
If the van is to be a usable van it is very important to check chassis for cracks and broken welds as millard1399 has shown but also bends and rust look around the perimeter of van underneath any rust holes are not good as to fix and make structurally sound nine times out of ten you will need to lift floor up off chassis to fix properly my Millard was built chassis then floor then aluminum frame sits on the floor so for a complete van this would be a major job not for the light hearted with a light wallet that is to say if you spent top dollar for van expect to do lots of work or pay lots of dollars more to have fixed. Mine was a striped out van well at least most of it was striped out so the rust right down the drivers side was just a big inconvenience but had it been a usable van I would have had to make the big decision of fix or get rid of.
As has been said change bearings strait away the most common reason trailers are stranded on side of road a worse case scenario is it ceases up breaks split pin and wheel comes off destroying your pride and joy also your car and occupants could be badly damaged.
These are the main points I would look if I was buying a vintage or classic van to use without rebuilding there will usually be little things to do.
  One thing I thought is to make sure all 240volt switches and power points are double pole and not been changed to ordinary household ones. I had no idea about this until I looked up and in reading posts on here what had to be used . 

have fun and be safe Bruce