23ft Millard impossible to tow

[Deleted]

Hi,

We really want to find out if 23ft Millards ('84) are just impossible to tow well or if we're doing something wrong/ there is something we can improve on the van.

We've just bought this van. We needed something bigger because we have three young kids. Both times we've towed it it was very windy weather.

It feels like the caravan is really getting blown around by the wind. Hubby has to steer against the winds (or when big trucks come past) to keep it straight. The way it's towing right now we'll never be able to take it on longer trips.

So I'd really like to talk to other Millard owners (especially 23fters) if they have the same problem & what they did to fix it.

We're towing with a 2008 Ford Falcon BA Mk2 (manual/gas) with a 1600kg tow kit.

Seller told us tare weight is 1400kg. Does that sound right (with original fitout inside)? We haven't made it to a weigh bridge yet.

The last two weeks we've gutted it completely and took it for a drive today and it seemed even worse. Less weight made the wind problem heaps worse.

There is no weight distribution hitch or sway control on it. Is that the problem?

We'd really appreciate some advice!

Thanks

[Rattles]

Go to Weigh Bridge and check the van Weight and the Ball Weight as it sounds as if the ball weight may be a bit light making the van unstable . A WDH would be a good idea but check your weights then decide.

I think you will find the Weight may be a tad more than 1400kg

Rattles

[Deleted]

There is no weight distribution hitch or sway control on it. Is that the problem?

I would not tow a van of this size without a Hayman Reese set-up.
The tow ball weight is critical too.
I have no connection to any hitch companies
les

[greedy53]

very likely also make sure as much heavy items in the van are over the vans axel to heavy load at front will let the van wag it tail to heavy at back lifts the back wheels of tow car a level ride will help but sorting the items in the van will help a lot

[Deleted]

Thanks so much for the replies.

We just checked the ball weight (with the van being empty/gutted inside) and it was 90kg. So definitely too light. I googled that it should be not less than 10% of total weight of van, is that right?
We're planning to get a hayman Reese hitch fitted by Pedders. Just wanted to check first how much improvement we can expect.
Will we ever be able to tow a van of this size comfortably at 90-100km/h?

[jeff]

Hi Millard, Your van is far too rear heavy for some reason or other, you need the right balance ie approx. 10 percent van weight on towball, too much weight on rear and it will fishtail, think of an arrow with no weight on front of it or a dart. Cheers

[Deleted]

Hi Millard,
I can certainly understand that you're having problems!
Firstly,your falcons tow capacity with a manual gearbox is 1200kg!!!
Secondly your Millard weighs WELL OVER 1400kg!!
You have 2 options,sell the van ,or upgrade your car to something much heavier,like a 4wd.
Sorry to be the bearer of sad tidings,but that is how it is.
I get very peeved that newbies are misled into what their car can tow,and believe me I know all about Falcons,as until 4 months ago thats all I had for the last14 years to tow all my vans,the heaviest of which weighs 1900 kg with all safety towing equipment.since changing to a 4wd I didnt realise how much my Falcon struggled.
Cheers
hughdeani

[Deleted]

Unfortunately the size of the tow vehicle will always be a problem with a van of this size.
Your BA weighs in at 1600 -1700 kg and the van will most likely come in around 1500kg plus, lightly loaded.
Most people use 4WD's to tow vans safely purely for the fact that something like an old 60 Series 'Cruizer tips the scales around 2200 - 2400 kg.
You simply need a heavy tow vehicle to properly control a heavy load being towed.
(IE: it takes alot of force for 1500kg to shift 2400kg, don't take much for 1500kg to upset 1500 kg )

Wind resistance is also a major factor.
A 23ft van behind a small sedan will expose much more surface area to the elements, increasing the effects of wind buffeting.
The same van behind a tall 4WD is mostly protected and more stable sitting in the tow vehicles' slip stream.

Saying that though..........an empty van can be a real PITA too in the same situation with wind and passing trucks etc.
There is less weight and so easier to "upset" the van and cause it to move on the road.

My best suggestion before spending too much money, make sure BOTH tyres are of the same size/type/brand and in good condition, correctly inflated.
Load your van up with all the gear you need and make sure it is distributed with the bulk of the weight centred over the van's axle.
Move your gear around until you have achieved the best towball weight you can and just go on a short trip up the highway for a weekend.
Sit on 80kph, 90, 100 or wherever the van feels comfortable.
If you notice a big improvement, load levellers and the like will only improve it from there

If it's still getting blown around like a leaf in a storm.....................
Time to get a bigger tow rig

(oh yeah......good luck with the Gearbox! )
Hope this has been some help.............Bob.

[Deleted]

Hi again Millard,
The tow weights for your car I have quoted are the LEGAL requirements needed.All towcars now have weights listed for what they can legally tow,not what people think they can tow.
So if you weigh your van I can guarantee it will weigh over 2000kg loaded,and as I stated this is way too much for a manual Falcon.
In the event of an accident your insurance will be refused due to overloading of said vehicle.
hughdeani

[bobt]

Gidday Millard

Welcome aboard.
I see your planning on doing a couple of mods to the caravan. Sorry cannot help with separating the body from the chassis bit. There may be some others on here that have that experience.

When you say 23foot long, is that the length of the caravans body or the total length of the caravan?

Check your owners manual for the falcon. Depending on what year you have impacts on its towing capacity. Early ones were 1200kg braked and later models were 2300kg. I have no idea when they changed it or why. If you do not have the owners manual then I am sure a ford dealer will be able to help.

As the others have indicated how you load the van is critical, weight distribution hitches help.

How you fit the van out during your reno, the layout and the materials are important, you must keep the weight down.

The falcon is a most capable tow vehicle provided you do not exceed its weight limits and you set the caravan up correctly.

Now how about sharing some photos.

Bobt

[viscount6116]

Gday Millard and welcome
As has been said you should get another more suitable tow vehicle or buy a smaller van

I have a 24 foot viscount with an aluminium frame and also have a 1996 falcon wagon that i towed my van with for about 40 km.That was too scary for me and so bought an older landcruiser to tow with.
When my van is loaded,on a good day(cause it changes) my van weighs around 2000-2200 kg (too heavy for a falcon)

In the mid 1980s I owned a 1970 something(cant remember the year,had a blue stripe) 22 foot 2 door millard van that i bought in Vic and towed back to SA with my xw falcon wagon.Seriously that was the scaryest trip with a caravan that I ever took. The back of the car was nearly on the ground and the front wheels on the car where almost off the ground(definately not a good look,would probably be arrested today ;D ;D)
Do yourselves a favour and weigh your van cause I would say that your car is well and truely overloaded and until you know your weights we are really all just guessing !
Stay safe
Cheers Andy

[penny61]

We used to have a 23ft 84 Millard.... Dad towed it with an 84 Landcruiser.

I agree with hughdeani....One of the other reasons those big vans feel so dangerous behind small cars like Falcons has to do with the weight, yes.... but of the car, not the van. The car has to weigh more than the van does, or the van is capable of pulling the car around if it starts to get out of control.... and they can...... when you want it to be the other way around. The car has to be in control.

From memory Millie weighed well over 2 tonnes, and the Landcruser was heavily laden too; empty they were about the same.

Big vans= more space to load things in, and more weight.

I don't think you will never be able to tow such a big van at 90-100km/hr with a little car... we only ever did 80-90 km/hr. She was just a 6 cylinder petrol (running on gas) though. A v8 would have done better, but used more fuel.

I remember a couple of times seeing long Viscounts being towed by little Falcons... that had stretched from pulling too much weight, and the doors were held closed with Ocky straps....

Do you have any photos of the van? Just wondering if it's the same as what we used to have.....

Penny61

[Deleted]

Hi Millard unless your car is setup for towing I wouldn't suggest towing anything more than a 15-18 footer with it, as that aren't designed for the towing capacity.
Diesel 4wd would be my choice of towing vehicle especially with turbo.

A 23 footer in need of repairs I would suggest taking it to a place that can do I repairs, caravans are great for holidays though if it is going be a semi permanent living solution I would a min of a 35-40 footer note: caravan parks aren't the ideal lace to be bringing up kids in so I would choose wisely before you set out on your trip.

If you intend to pull with a car I would suggest getting a dog made for towing it to reduce load on your rear axels and spring, sad to say you can spend 80,000 in doing up the caravan so it meets current safety guidelines or it might be cheaper buying newer and save the headaches.

Due to safety with the older type caravans I may find thing s hard if you have to keep it legal. For on road use, I currently live in a 23 foot viscount and i know the uphill battle I face just so it it can legal mine is in the 1960's-early 1980's vintage caravans anything above 20 years of age I would consider a dumper as permanent rental on a caravan park as a tower holiday caravan they aren't as suitable as they once were so I would be careful gutting the crap of an older caravan as it. Could cost you more to to clear it for road use.
I would weigh up the pro's and the con's of modifying what you have vs buying new, sad to say looking at my own 23footer I wouldn't use it in a family context isn't big enough for a family of 5, what you would get way with in the 60's&70's as living conditions for a family of 5-7 you wouldn't pass muster with all safety and bullshit you gotta contend with under safety and child protection acts we have today.

It is up to you what youwant to do from my own experience with a 23 footer with a shower you might be push it with 3 people living in it though 5-7 would we a no no in my books.

just looking at the capacity of my caravan at 23foot 1888-1999 not sure what the Max ratio is on the mallard is I would assume
you would have the weights guide stencilled on the right hand side.

if you're planning on a fifth wheel type setup I would strongly consider the cost of modification and the cost of a complete electrical refit might be on the cards and givn ithat cost you may want to look a longe berth given the amount of people you have to house under 1 roof, the cost modernization of the old mallard may be a cost you can't bare.

the way I look at it if you plan to do a retrofit of the mallard I would suggest takin back to bare shell before you do anything and work out the cost of any modifications you need done vs buying new with something that has all your needs catered for.
note If planning some form of wifi for computer use I would look at a barrier shield for micro wave use nd if planning to us wifi external to a caravan you might wish to consider external antennas as a caravan will act like a faraday cage and block signal.

I'm a tech junkie from way back and I know the limitations of wireless in all its forms.