1970 Viscount - A7377

[Deleted]

Greetings,

I was wondering if there was anyone out there who could mentor me through a Viscount project. I have just acquired an old Viscount van. I think it is a 1970's. It was a lovely van in its day. I don't know what model it is but the Chassis No is A7377 and SN 8100793. Someone out there may know this van or the history etc. It looks like it has been everywhere going by the stickers on back window. It is now in need of a revamp. I do love the original decor but it is tired and loose and got warps and all the chipboard has swelled and flaked. The roof has had a serious leak and the roof panels need replacing. Windows all need resealing. Chipboard under the wrap arounds at front and back has fallen apart. Floor is a little soft on the entry just above the step. Body reasonably straight but small dents in the bulkheads (probably parked on a river under a tree or something). It has all the original mirrors in the cabinets. Instead of bunks on the side next to the door, it has a wrap around buffet with an overhead crystal cabinet (glass sliding doors and mirror in the back). It was lovely. White gold flecked laminex on the benches. It has some blinds left. Curtains were original but all falling apart. It has the original mattress, it needs a steam clean but it is still in great nick. I would love to get it into habitable condition.

Does anyone know what kind of stud pattern was the original wheels?
It currently has 15 inch HT HOlden pattern Mags and of course no spare wheel. HT Mag spares are hard to find I would think.

Does anyone know if these vans had brakes? The faded lettering on the side of the van says T980. I need to get the van re registered and was wondering what I have to do in order to get it back on the road. The lights work - faded but they work.

Any advice would be appreciated. Cheers Enidb

[Deleted]

[ForumMod]

G'day enidb, and welcome to this forum! ;D You may recognise me as "Franklin1" from the Vintage caravans forum, but here I pretend I'm a Moderator.

If anybody is interested in reading a wonderful story about enidb and a Franklin caravan and horses, have a read of this thread from the Vintage forum: Franklin Supreme 1966 "The Carawaggon"


As far as mentors go for your Viscount caravan, this forum is FULL of 'em! ;D ;D

You ask...we tell!

I'll give you a little tip to help you get started...

- Click on the 'Hall of Fame' section of the forum.
- Click on the word 'Subject' written in light blue on the dark blue band at the top. That will sort all the threads in alphabetical order.
- Read down the list and find the threads relating to Viscount caravans from 1969 and 1970. On Page 2, you'll see a thread relating to Viscount chassis number A7223, about 150 vans before yours.

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Does anyone know how I would wind this hatch up? I think it may be missing some bits. Can you buy the bits anywhere? Would anyone know? Much appreciated. EnidB

[Deleted]

Hello again, I found a faded area on the Aluminum on the front where the sticker was and it says Viscount Duralvan. So at least I know what it is now. I also found a plate on the side that says Fleetwood Caravans on the Albany Highway, Maddington WA. So, she has been around :-)

[Deleted]

I gave her a pressure wash and the light blue flashs at the top washed off to reveal shiny dark blue flashes.

[Deleted]

[ForumMod]

G'day enidb,
Just catching up on some of your questions...

Does anyone know what kind of stud pattern was the original wheels?

Most likely Holden, but some vans got Ford wheels.


Does anyone know if these vans had brakes?

I would expect a van the length of yours to have had brakes. I think Viscount commonly had the overriding mechanical brake setup, so you should see evidence of cables and/or levers on the drawbar and wheel hubs.


Does anyone know how I would wind this hatch up? I think it may be missing some bits. Can you buy the bits anywhere?

That's an usual style of hatch, and I've not seen that style before. It looks like you would have to wind both sides more or less at the same time, would that be right? Usually there's the style that has just the one winder at the front (or rear) of the hatch, and it raises the whole hatch lid in the one go. If the winder boxes on yours are still ok, and you are just missing the handles, then you might be able to get away with adapting these Millard winder handles to suit.


Hatch leaking...

A common problem. Usually because the sealant around the hatch has given up the ghost after 40 years. It can also be because the hatch wasn't installed very well in the first place, and it was always gonna leak eventually. Once you get to working on that area, you'll discover whether it's just a sealant problem or a poor installation problem (or both).

cheers,
Al.

[viscountofmydomain]

Feb 27, 2013 7:09:03 GMT 10 ForumMod said:

G'day enidb,
Just catching up on some of your questions...

Does anyone know what kind of stud pattern was the original wheels?

Most likely Holden, but some vans got Ford wheels.

There is another possibility, I have a 1966 Viscount Ambassador it had pre 70's Valiant stud pattern (the Valiant car, not Viscount Valiant van). Apparently from the 70's Valiants used the same stud pattern as Ford, but prior to this they had their own pattern measurements which were very similar (but different) to the Holden pattern. I found no one now makes wheels to this pattern so I changed to Ford.
I'm not sure about when Viscount used different wheels, it's just something to be aware of. You could take the wheel to your local tyre place they should have a wheel PCD measureing device.
VOMD

[Deleted]

Hello and thankyou so much for the answers to my questions Al and VOMD! What a great forum. Yes, I will look into the hatch winders and the calls. I need to open the hatch to work on the van....its soooo hot in there! And VODM, I took a wheel to the tyre place like you said and they told me that it is old type of car Holden HT pattern mag wheel 15". Then I rang around to see if anyone had this type of tyre currently in stock. No one did, they said they had to order it in. Hmmmm.... I can see a problem here. Say if I am touring around Australia somewhere and I do a tyre. I could be stuck where I don't want to be for a few days till they get the right tyre in. So.....I wonder if it is worth changing over to a common tyre that is always in stock (say Ford for arguments sake) then I could buy 3 steel wheels 2 and one as a spare. As it is now, I have two very perished flat tyres and no spare in an old stud pattern..... What type of FORD wheel measurement did you change over to? Also, I would need a tyre that fits the wheel arch. They are a kind of moulded plastic. One is broken because an odd tyre was put on the caravan on the tow home and it didn't fit properly. Long story, they guy said it was towable. So I got a permit and found out 150 kms from his place that it probably should not have been attempted on a Saturday late afternoon when all the tyre places are shut. Blew the tyre, changed it to a different wheel that was perished that he threw in for luck and limped home. The The dodgy spare went dead the moment we got it in the driveway.....It held on all that way..... I am wondering if I should change over to more common wheels, then what kind of wheels should I go for (tyre brand and size) and if they still make those moulded wheel arches anymore.... Your thoughts? I can't tow the van to a tyre place since she is sitting in the drive rather deflated :-)

[Deleted]

1970 Viscount Duralvan


Tow Bar & Hitch. Looks like the brakes have been taken off. I think I may need to get brakes back on. Any suggestions to get a van re registered? TARE is 960 (written on the side).

[ForumMod]

I'd suggest you crawl under the van and see if someone's installed electric brakes on the van. There seems to be a couple of cables from the tow plug running to the underneath of the van. If you can see some electrical wires disappearing into the wheel hub on both sides, that would suggest to me that electrical brakes are there.

I'm not a car enthusiast, so there'll be other people more knowledgeable than me about wheels, but what I can tell you is that a 14 inch wheel might be a better option for you (and is probably what was on the van originally. I think the 15" version was a non-standard fitting on Holdens, but others will correct me on that). I ended up getting trailer wheels for the Windsor van after having some issues with the original steel wheels. Mine are 14". See the first post on Page 13 of my Windsor thread.

cheers,
Al.

[rebswa]

Feb 27, 2013 14:37:34 GMT 10 @enidb said:

Hello and thankyou so much for the answers to my questions Al and VOMD! What a great forum. Yes, I will look into the hatch winders and the calls. I need to open the hatch to work on the van....its soooo hot in there! And VODM, I took a wheel to the tyre place like you said and they told me that it is old type of car Holden HT pattern mag wheel 15". Then I rang around to see if anyone had this type of tyre currently in stock. No one did, they said they had to order it in. Hmmmm.... I can see a problem here. Say if I am touring around Australia somewhere and I do a tyre. I could be stuck where I don't want to be for a few days till they get the right tyre in. So.....I wonder if it is worth changing over to a common tyre that is always in stock (say Ford for arguments sake) then I could buy 3 steel wheels 2 and one as a spare. As it is now, I have two very perished flat tyres and no spare in an old stud pattern..... What type of FORD wheel measurement did you change over to? Also, I would need a tyre that fits the wheel arch. They are a kind of moulded plastic. One is broken because an odd tyre was put on the caravan on the tow home and it didn't fit properly. Long story, they guy said it was towable. So I got a permit and found out 150 kms from his place that it probably should not have been attempted on a Saturday late afternoon when all the tyre places are shut. Blew the tyre, changed it to a different wheel that was perished that he threw in for luck and limped home. The The dodgy spare went dead the moment we got it in the driveway.....It held on all that way..... I am wondering if I should change over to more common wheels, then what kind of wheels should I go for (tyre brand and size) and if they still make those moulded wheel arches anymore.... Your thoughts? I can't tow the van to a tyre place since she is sitting in the drive rather deflated :-)

Not sure the tyre and wheel info you have is correct. Ford wheels will not fit a HT Holden stud pattern and HT Holden did not have 15" wheels to my knowledge.
I have just refurbished a 1979/80 Viscount Supreme and it sits on Holden HT steel wheels. These are 14 x 5" which are very common on caravans, boat trailers etc and take 175R14C LT tyres that are still used on some current model commercial vehicles. You can readily get these wheels at trailer parts stores. There is a choice of the sunrasia style wheel at 14 x 6" or the original pressed steel wheel 14 x 5" like what came out on the HT Holden.
I had no problem whatsoever getting light truck tyres to fit.
Just beware that (some) Viscounts on Girlock hubs have Holden LM bearings, Holden HT stud pattern and Ford 1/2" diameter studs in lieu of the HT Holden 7/16" studs. Makes no difference, its still a holden setup essentially, just that the stud size confuses.
Hope that is of some help

[ForumMod]

The stub axles on my Windsor van are the composite type, with Holden inner bearings, and Ford outer bearings. Hopefully you don't have that, otherwise you have to chase up individual bearings to make a set. Somebody else on this forum found they had the same on their van (hmmm...was it kylarama and his Millard? Can't remember now. )

[viscountofmydomain]

Agree with rebswa and Al. I bought new sunrasia rims as descibed by rebswa, most places locally here were selling them for about $55 per rim. To make the change to Ford rims I also changed my hubs to electric and due to the different mounting on the axle i needed to change it also, this got very expensive. However because you have a Holden stud pattern already you might get away with just sourcing new rims and tyres as described by rebswa. Make sure you check the bearing also.

From your pictures above I notice the tow fitting is welded to your A-frame. This is no longer allowed and you will possibly be picked up on it (at least in NSW) when you have the van inspected for road worthiness.

It is confusing as to why a previous owner has put that tow fitting on because even electric brakes have a park brake facility which is normally attached to the tow fitting. You may need a park brake also.

VOMD

[Deleted]

Greetings! I think I had some success this weekend getting brand new light truck tyres 14'' fitted to the Duralvan . Apparently this 1970 model had valiant wheels stud pattern and the man said they had no spares because most people used the spare tyres from their cars of that era that would also fit the caravans (makes sense). I went to pick a part in Melbourne and I got an almost new Volvo wheel/rim really almost new tyre - (they was a guy in there getting parts that builds trailers and also restores old caravans and he said that the volvo stud pattern fitted the valiants and HT stud patterns) and I took the whole caravan to the tyre fellow who put it on the caravan, checked the clearance and said that the Volvo tyre was perfect for a spare. He said though, I may like to consider replacing all the wheels to white steel wheels in the future to make it all standard. The new tyres were a good price $55 each and he balanced them for me and fitted them on. So all up it has cost me $130 for new tyres and a good spare.

[Deleted]

As I was working on wheels this weekend, we discovered that this van has got electric brakes but has been disconnected. So next weekend (hopefully weather permitting) my husband and I will pull off the wheels and take a look at the bearings and brake system and figure out how to get all that sorted.

So, I thought I would pull the hatch off to take a look at the roof and winder system. Because the winders were gone, I used my cordless drill and put it over the winder stub (if that is what they are called) and I unwound the winders. They were very stuck but I put some WD-40 on first. The hatch is a box shaped zinc hatch and it was so hot you could fry an egg on it. I decided to take the whole thing off the roof so I could get the step ladder into the van and look at where water is getting in. Wow what a mess. Putty or something hardened in big globs with years of silicon over the top, all gone yellow and a really dirty roof. So, I started chipping away and then it got dark. Its a big job.

Would anyone know what is the best putty or silicone to put around the hatch once I get the old stuff off? I have some Silkflex here I used on another project but I have been reading that it is not too popular. I noticed that the seam of the roof abutts the seal of the hatch, and it was split on the seam where the rivett went (this had been covered up with the really hard putty).

The roof is faded and all the seams have silicon that is yellow. Is it worth re doing the whole lot? I would like to repaint the roof to clean it up and further seal it. I have loads of white solarguard paint left over from my "CaraWaggon" project so I was thinking of using that. Can you paint over silicon? I have been told you cannot, yet I did on the other caravan on the roof (early days though) Any thoughts or ideas?

[Deleted]

From your pictures above I notice the tow fitting is welded to your A-frame. This is no longer allowed and you will possibly be picked up on it (at least in NSW) when you have the van inspected for road worthiness.

It is confusing as to why a previous owner has put that tow fitting on because even electric brakes have a park brake facility which is normally attached to the tow fitting. You may need a park brake also.

Read more: ditzygypsy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=photos&thread=2198&page=2#19200#ixzz2MWKTB9sJ

Thank you for this comment. So it sounds like it has been modified.....what would be the remedy I wonder...? I have searched VicRoads website but have not found structural information on the tow hitch requirements. Of course, to get on the phone to them is a 40 min wait and I gave up - ran out of time ...:-) Would anyone have a list of registration requirements for old caravans for Victoria by any chance?

[Deleted]

I am pounding this forum with questions today, I know :-)

Inside the caravan is a horrible mess on the roof. From the hatch to the back on the roof, the laminated ply has all separated and deteriorated. So, of course I am unscrewing all the light fittings in order to take it all out. I like the layout of the van, the cupboards, the wardrobes and the cabinet with the island bench.

All the boys that come over for shed time with my husband on a Sunday night all told me I have to gut the whole van and start over because the ply would be also structural and all the cupboards need to be taken out first. I thought I could just put ply on the ceiling cut to the shape around the cupboards cause I like them. Everything I am reading is pointing to a complete strip of the van.

What do you guys reckon? The thought that goes through my mind is...you've got to break eggs to make omelettes.

The top cupboards glass & mirrors are still in great nick. Would I have to pull all that out to put a new inner roof in because of structural reasons? The van is Aluminium framed.

Much appreciated......this forum and all the renovators out there.....Cheers EnidB

[ForumMod]

G'day endb,

I hadn't forgotten you...just been a bit busy last day or so.

Time to answer your questions...

The really hard putty stuff you've come across is most likely a cream-coloured mastic that's gone hard over the years. I'm not sure where you get the idea from that Sikaflex is not popular. It's one of the better sealants you'll come across, but also one of the most expensive. The drawback to Sikaflex and some of the other types of sealants is that once you stick it, it's stuck for good. If you think you'll never have to take a particular part back off a caravan, then sealing it with Sikaflex is ok.

Is it worth redoing the whole roof? Not if you don't have any leaks in the roof at the moment. If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it.

Can you paint over silicone? Sure you can...it's just that the paint will want to "de-wet" away from the silicone surface. The first coat will show spots of silicone poking through the paint. The second coat will cover some of those up. A third coat should cover the lot. How long will the paint stick for? Ummm...dunno...but some windows in an outdoor area of my house are still going strong after two years since I painted over a bit of silicone with Dulux Weathershield (equal to Solagard).


Tow coupling?...Surely there is someone on this forum who can answer your question about Vic rego requirements, and whether you need to do anything about your tow coupling. Helloooo...anybody out there?! ;D


The ceiling damage...what's the ceiling like inside the overhead cupboards? If it's not too bad inside them, I'd be inclined to renew the part of the ceiling you can see that's damaged at the back. It's still not an easy job to do that, but it'd be heaps easier than ripping everything out and redoing the whole ceiling. Probably I'd go for cutting the new ceiling to size and glueing it to the existing ceiling if I thought the existing ceiling could cope with it. If not, I'd cut the damaged part of the ceiling out and fit a new piece in it's place. Notice how it took me only 30 seconds to describe what I'd do...but to actually DO it would take me 30 days or more.

The ceiling ply helps with the structural rigidity, but you still have the roof cladding providing some rigidity to the framework. Any new ceiling ply cut in to replace the damaged stuff will still be adding to the rigidity of the van.

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Hello Al. Thank you so much for your response to my questions. I really appreciate this forum. If it wasn't for this forum, I probably wouldn't have tackled this particular caravan.
The to do list on this van is long - but I am getting through it slowly. From info on this forum, I went to Bunning and bought a Multi Purpose Ocillating power tool and so far so good. It is great for cutting away old rotten bits and lifting up the old carpet that has been stuck on with rubber glue - a horrible job.

I got the grinder out with the wire brush and got off all the old silicone. I was doing it by hand till I read a post on this forum about using the power wire brush. All the old flaking sealant came off in a flash. I have just finished pressure washing the roof with some detergent - then I went back into the van to see where the water was getting through.... Later this afternoon when it cools down I plan to lay Sikaflex Marine over all of the seams and hatch on the roof. I have 4 tubes of it along with some Sikaflex 11C that I had already. Hopefully that will work. Before I lay the sealant, I will wipe over the seams with Metho to make sure the seams are really really clean.

Thanks for your advice about the inside ply ceiling. The worst leaks are in the wardrobes of which there are two on each side of the van towards the back. I removed the roof in there with the multi tool and yep, the seams over the wardrobes were corroded. I left the front roof panel over the table front and the last roof panel in front of the cupboards at the back. I am impressed by the quality of the original build of this van. The ply is good quality - I went to Bunnings yesterday and noticed the stuff they are selling there is really not the same as the ply in my van. Would you know where to buy good quality caravan roof paneling ply? I am near Melbourne.

Again, thanks for the great posts on this forum. EnidB

[Deleted]

Hi Enidb

You're doing a great job renovating your van. Would love to see some more photos of the inside, especially the wrap around bar

What length is your van?

Subbie

[Deleted]

Gee thanks. OMG it is a mess at the moment! That horrible gold corded ribbed carpet in the back room was stuck down with rubber and if you pull it, it splinters the ply floor. It has 40 years of dirt trapped in it. Sneeze! I'm getting up super early in the morning to do some more sealant work on the roof before the day gets sizzling. I also got to get the last bit of carpet up - it is bugging me.
Ok, I will take some photos tomorrow of the wrap around bar. Everyone around here reckons I should take it out because the doors have had it. But I like it! It does tend to take up alot of room in the van though. I want to keep the bar if I can. I think my van is 15 ft. I haven't measured her yet. TARE written on the side says T960 but VicRoads told me she was registered as T1030.
Subbie, I like your van - it is a dream! Aren't the Viscounts wonderful? Cheerio EnidB

[Deleted]

[Deleted]