1971 Franklin Regent 4428-1

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Hi all, this be my first post. Please let me know if I have made a mess of something, I am using an ipad and the pro boards app.

Here is our recent acquisition, I haven't got too many photos yet. (Only started tonight be cause I began pulling stuff apart, the ledge under the window where the table attaches is rotten chipboard)







In pretty good nick, leaks seem to be showing only around the windows, no signs of damage to floors or ceiling/upper cupboards.



Any ideas on the black rot/mould?

We have had it for about a month and it is all original from what I can tell, feel free to correct me...
Just started pulling the master cylinder, jockey wheel and hitch apart, every nut and bolt is rusted shut. Fun times...gonna sort all this out to start off the mechanical side of things. Serial number is 4428-1 and it has always been registered as a 1971. Franklin on the hitch



And Franklin on the sink too. The fridge runs great on gas, cold and nearly silent.



We are going to keep it pretty original, but add solar and batteries to allow us to camp wherever with the ability to play a bit of music, charge electronic items and stay connected via phones, etc. also add some lighting inside and out.

First bit of advice I am going to be seeking is what to do about the lean? It leans to drivers side noticeably, I will post photos shortly.

Great site, been looking around well before I became an owner of a classic. Looking forward to the journey

Ben.

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Hi Ben and welcome to the forum,

You've got yourself a real little gem, it's in such perfect condition. Must have been garaged since it came off the factory floor 42 years ago. The draw bar has very little rust.

How did you come by this van, was it advertised for sale?

Love your little orange Franklin,

Subbie

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Thanks Subbie,

Found this one on Gumtree, but the guy was a bit unorganised. Had no rego, no papers, he only put one photo up (the one below) and it was stored a bit out of town. I think it must have put a few people off because it was listed for quite a while before we saw it.

So I'm told, the van was stored in a shed up the river for the first 30 odd years of its life. An old couple used to pull it out half a dozen times a year to use it on their river block and put it away. The guy i bought it from purchased it from family of said couple and used it/stored it on the same block for a few years. I don't think the van has seen many roads.
He then towed it back down to Adelaide and left it in the back yard unused and uncovered for the last 5 or 6 years.
Then we got to it!


Ben.

[ForumMod]

G'day Ben, and welcome to the forum! ;D

Crikey, pretty neat looking van there. And yep, I would think it's still pretty original, from what I can see in your photos.

Would you do me a favour please, and tell me what the length of the cabin is from the point at the front to the point at the back (ie. where the body shape comes to a point at both ends).

The black mould? Hmmm...it's one of the worst things to discover in a van frame. It tells you the timber is pretty well shot. If you got a small sharp pin-type instrument (like a cake skewer, or a jeweller's screwdriver) I reckon you could probably push it straight through that timber. Do a few tests around that area and see how solid the timber is underneath before you decide what the next step should be.

The listing to one side? I'd be checking the springs underneath. Count how many spring leaves there are each side. Check to see if there are any breaks in any of the spring leaves.
Have a good look at the mudguard on the driver's side and see if there's any evidence of previous damage (eg. wheel coming off?). Something might have happened in the life of the van to require some repair work, and it hasn't been done correctly. The Millard poptop I had, had a lean to the driver's side as well. Eventually it dawned on me one day that the spring on the driver's side had 6 leaves, and the one on the passenger side had 7 leaves. The plastic guard on the driver's side had been repaired by inserting a new guard inside the old one. The old one had cracks in it. I think at some time in its life, a wheel had come off the Millard and bounced up into the wheel arch (or maybe it was just a deep pothole that caused the bounce).

cheers,
Al.

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Thanks guys,

I love the enthusiasm and eagerness to help and offer advice around here, restores your faith in the human race.

Not sure if I will like all the advice I get though i.e. "The black mould? Hmmm...it's one of the worst things to discover in a van frame". This doesn't sound good...however I started with a large safety pin and that bent before it went into the wood. A metal skewer went into the wood only right at the edges/ends and only with considerable pressure. It felt reasonably firm, I'm probably being a little bit optimistic.
What the best way to go? I had already resigned myself to the fact that I would be pulling out the frames to reseal anyway.
The van is 4420mm from tip to tip (unlike my van, my tape measure was not made in the 70's).
And yes the van has all 7 leaves on each side with no obvious signs of damage to them. I'll check the wheel arch tonight.

Cheers, Ben.

[ForumMod]

Well, it does look promising if the skewer doesn't easily go through the timber. I'm still a bit curious about that section between the front windows...if you press on the timber either side of the join, do either of the timbers move independent of the other?...




If that area still seems rock solid, you might be able to get away with leaving it as it is, and just spend your time on making sure the front windows are sealed properly. It's a pretty big job to go pulling that internal wall cladding off and renewing it.

If you have to at least pull the bit of timber off the front wall that had the laminex on it, be careful how you go about it. If you damage the polyester-coated plywood underneath (the white-grey lining stuff) then that'll be the front of the van "buggered". Try carefully chipping bits of timber away, working at both ends as per the blue arrows...




When you think about the "science" of a leaning caravan, there can't be too many reasons for the lean. Either the spring is not holding that side up properly due to the spring being faulty, or there's too much weight on that side of the van for the spring to hold up. Given your van seems to be original inside, it can't be a "too much weight" isssue, so the answer has to be in the spring itself.

And that's assuming somebody hasn't done something silly like put a 14 inch wheel/tyre on one side, and a 13 inch wheel on the other.

cheers,
Al.

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Funny you should mention that, when we bought it, it had completely different profile tyres on each side. I put the lean down to that. Same size tyres each side now and still a bit of a lean.
As for the timber, if I push my body weight onto the upright piece between the windows it moves at the base a couple of mm. Feels quite solid though.
We were thinking of painting the timber around the windows, not as a cover up, but just to lighten and brighten the natural light we already have. How would this situation affect paints?

Ben

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Ben,

Have you had a really good look at the chassis on the drivers side?

When we inspected our Viscount caravan before purchasing it, all three of us went over it pretty thoroughly, but we all missed finding the outer rail of the chassis on the drivers side was heavily rusted, it was covered with a lot of dust and dirt and we were probably looking further under, not right on the edge of the chassis. When we got her home and discovered it, we had to get a new piece welded in. We have since found out on the forum that it's a common problem on Viscounts.

Admittedly, I know diddly squat about anything mechanical but just thought I would mention it.

Subbie

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Luv the Van.....looks like a great "Barn Find"

As for the lean....our little van had the same issue.
Everything checked out O.K. chassis/rust/tyres/spring leaves etc.
All I could put it down to was 40 years of the heavily weighted drivers side causing the springs to sag.

When I looked at our Van, the drivers side has (in order, starting at the hitch.) the gas bottle, fridge,sink,cupboards,cast iron/steel cook top and finally the 40 litre water tank all on that one side
AND to make matters worse, the Jockey Wheel is on the outer Passenger side rail....talk about adding some twist to the chassis!

The passenger side by comparison has only the small plywood wardrobe between the front door and the bed!

Talk about uneven weight distribution
We used to just pack all the heavy items on the passenger side floor over the axle while travelling. This evened it out enough to sit square on the road.

But I was still not happy, so I carefully jacked up the body dead level, loosened off the u-bolts that clamp the axle to the springs then allowed the axle to "hang" off the springs.

This allowed the leaves, once unclamped, to slip and re-set the axle level. Once it had all settled, clamp the bolts/springs tight again then lower to the ground.

If this does not solve the issue...........shift some weight around or order some new springs.
The new springs are reasonably cheap and be of fresh steel, obviously better than saggy old 40 year old ones!

All the best.....Bob.

[ForumMod]

G'day Ben,

The framework between the windows will be "stuffed", but it seems it is not stuffed enough to be a major worry at the moment. You can maybe rub some of the black stuff off with sandpaper, and then paint over the timber to tidy it up. The screws in the two front windows will hold the timber framework together to some degree, but it won't stop the front of the van flexing when you tow it, particularly when towing against a strong wind. I'd give the painting a go first and see how long it lasts for. You can always do a more serious repair in the future if it doesn't last long.

And talking about old springs, I'm working on a vintage caravan project at the moment. The original springs were pretty sagged, and I took them to a local Springworks for assessment. He reckoned they probably came off a station wagon from the time period (1960). He recommended I buy a new set of proper caravan springs, which cost me $308 for the springs and everything that goes with them. This photo shows the difference between the old and the new...




Docbob is saying the same as I was thinking.

cheers,
Al.

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Thanks all,

Subbie, I've had a good look up and down the chassis and found nothing noticeable to my eye. The rust seems to be all surface much like the draw bar and the only structural problem I've found so far is a broken weld on the stabiliser feet at the rear. I'll also fess up to being a bit mechanically handicapped too! I do everything the hard way with the wrong tools...

Hi Bob, thanks for your thoughts. The van has the jockey wheel, gas bottle, water tank and spare wheel all on a centreline from hitch to number plate. Not much I can do about the fridge and stove at this point, but I may put a 30kg agm battery and charger on the other side in bottom of cupboard to distribute the weight.

Al, I believe as Bob and yourself have both indicated, new springs are a safe bet and I have budgeted for the whole rear axle to be replaced if needed. When it is out I will complete my rite-of-passage and grind/sand and paint the chassis. Looks like so much fun! If in your experience the window timber seems "buggered" then I may just sand and paint it for now, put off that big job for when I have a bit more experience.

I noticed before it went under the carport, water was entering the top and exiting the bottom of the aluminium edging along the roof, like this

As I mentioned I know I will have to reseal the window frames and aluminium edging, any tips or hints on method and materials would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Ben.

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I had that discolour on my window frames and a small bit of rot on the extremities as i told you in the pm,i treated the rot with penetrol then rebuilt with timbermate rubbed it all back and painted the frames,i did that with the windows out,

,,what sort of hatch has the van got,,do you have a rear door to get at the fridgr and i guess you have a pull out bed at the back

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Lovely lovely little Franklin. How sweet. It reminds me of how my little Franklin would have looked before it became converted to horse drawn! We have a terrific solar panel on our roof. We installed a plug inside and the panel ran our Waeco Fridge and lights all weekend (and charged up our mobile phones with a multi plug device I got at a two dollar shop). We got our panel off ebay for the $300 mark I think. I keep it pretty clean (wipe it with a soft microfibre cloth) so to get maximum charge off the battery. Works really well.

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2013 16:33:32 GMT 10 @turbopete said:

I had that discolour on my window frames and a small bit of rot on the extremities as i told you in the pm,i treated the rot with penetrol then rebuilt with timbermate rubbed it all back and painted the frames,i did that with the windows out,

,,what sort of hatch has the van got,,do you have a rear door to get at the fridgr and i guess you have a pull out bed at the back

Pete,

Fibreglass hatch, in great condition. Winds smooth and easy, timber seems to be spot on.


No rear door for the fridge, vents riveted from the outside. No need to get in there at the moment, fridge is in good nick and I don't think it had ever been used on gas as it had a tape seal on the gas line tap. Note the spare flint and dodgy melted dial on the 240v thermostat. What the? Haven't tried 240v on fridge yet cause I don't have 15A power at home.



Cheers, Ben.

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2013 22:17:45 GMT 10 @enidb said:

Lovely lovely little Franklin. How sweet. It reminds me of how my little Franklin would have looked before it became converted to horse drawn! We have a terrific solar panel on our roof. We installed a plug inside and the panel ran our Waeco Fridge and lights all weekend (and charged up our mobile phones with a multi plug device I got at a two dollar shop). We got our panel off ebay for the $300 mark I think. I keep it pretty clean (wipe it with a soft microfibre cloth) so to get maximum charge off the battery. Works really well.

Thanks enidb,
Yes, I am familiar with your horse drawn carawagon! I was looking at that thread last night, very cool indeed. Also following your Viscount resto with interest, looking forward to the next instalment.
I'm reluctant to mount solar panels on the roof, I'd hate to cause more leaks than I already have! How'd you go about it?
Ben

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Axle is off.



Brakes pretty rough and need a bit of work. Based on quote from local mechanic and my limited experience (none) with brakes, I have decided to replace whole axle, hubs and brakes. It'll only cost $100 more to have a local guy fabricate the whole thing to my specs. Van weighs 760kg according to rego and info I can find on the net. New axle will be rated to 1250kg. This sound about right?

Want to do the springs too but can't work out how to get them out of the shackle. The slipper end has a right angle on the end. Can't jack it up a metre in the air so what do I do? Cut the end off?




Looks like a bit of work has been done to the springs on the drivers side where it was leaning. The u bolts on passenger side are still welded to axle but not on the drivers side. And the lug that centres the axle/spring is completely different.

.


I'll get back to it now, before my wife suggest I do more fixing and less talking about fixing!

Ben.

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Hi Ben to remove springs you need to remove the nut on th other end you will find it is between the a frame and the spring hanger,,,bit diffucult to get at

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Hi Ben maybe you should consider new alko electric brakes including new straight axle mine cost me $574.00 and it raises the van by 2inches

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Thanks Peter,

No nut on the slipper hanger anywhere, just welds. Got new springs and new axle on the way already, this should raise the van slightly as the the axle has less of a drop and the springs will sit a little higher apparently.
But I don't want to go too high. It sits just fine behind the Hilux and I don't have much height to spare in the carport. From what I've been told excess height can lead to stability problems when towing, I really don't want that.

Ben