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Post by elbowandchin on May 20, 2019 23:18:13 GMT 10
Hi everyone
I drive a 2010 6sp manual 2.0 petrol 2WD Nissan x-Trail (yes, 2WD) and I'm about to buy an 11ft York.
According to my car's manual, I can safely tow 750kg unbraked and 1,500kg braked.
I just want to make absolutely sure which weight I should be looking at.
The York has override brakes. So I am going by the 1,500kg figure? Is that right? Or does that only apply to electronic braking systems? Surely the 750kg refers to things like box trailers and not caravans?
If I'm limited by the unbraked maximum, then I'm pretty stuffed, as the York's tare weight is stated as 720kg and ATM is stated as 1,300kg in the ad I'm looking at. I just need to ask these questions to be absolutely sure.
The towball on my car (aftermarket, not Nissan) is stamped with 3,500kg. The towing info in the door frame says the "rated towing capacity" (for a Nissan towbar) is 2,000kg. Is that the same as the GVM? A brochure with specs for the May 2011 model of my car states a GVM of 2,000kg, so I think so, but want to make sure I understand the terminology being used here.
I mean, it just seems reasonable to assume that my car can safely tow a little van like that, fully loaded. If I keep the car (including towball down weight) to under 2,000kg and I keep the van to under 1,300kg, I should be OK with the car/towbar arrangement I've got with no need for electronic brakes... right? God, I hope so, or all my plans are kaputt.
Thanks for answering such basic questions.
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Post by nickd15 on May 21, 2019 9:07:53 GMT 10
For the sake of your question, over-ride brakes are brakes and given the amount of detail you have supplied, you should have no problem towing the van with your XTrail. The one concern is the stated ATM. Normally you would expect to see about 300 kgs between Tare and GTM. Based on your tare of 720 it should therefore be around 1050 loaded. This includes water and gas bottle. It would be wise to have the van weighed to confirm the weights also.
Good Luck with it.
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Post by Mustang on May 21, 2019 9:14:56 GMT 10
Hi Elbowandchin, Welcome to the Classic Forum & Classic caravanning. Providing your gross weight is under 750kg then you do not need trailer brakes. If you are checked & the gross weight of your van/trailer whatever is 751kg then you are in the brake category, friends of mine were caught on this. Override brakes will be legal, if they work & they can be effective if properly set up & maintained. In my opinion I will never tow a van without effective brakes, namely 10" electric, they are so cheap for piece of mind. Mostly every time we are out there we have a heavy braking incident whether it be red lights/traffic, there will always be something. Even long descents. Have a good look under the York, look for neglect around the brakes/chassis/axle light rust is nothing but flaky bits are something else. Good Luck & come back to us with any questions. Cheers Brent caravan check list link |
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Post by elbowandchin on May 21, 2019 13:02:28 GMT 10
Thank you both for those replies.
I've spoken to my mechanic and also had a great chat with the local caravan guy. Everyone is raising eyebrows at the quoted ATM, so I think it's wise to go by the more conservative 1,050kg estimate. I'm sure I'll turn up better info as I go along.
Getting the GCM for the X-Trail is almost impossible. I've just spoken to the local Nissan dealership and they said they had almost exactly the same enquiry a couple of months ago. They had to email Nissan Australia and even THEY didn't know. Practically had to have a bloody team meeting about it at head office. What the? Anyway, the local Nissan dude consulted the email and has said I should be safe to go by a GCM of 3,400kg and that given the car and the van I've described, I will be able to safely tow the van with the existing brakes. I just have to be smart and careful about what I pack.
Great chat with the local caravan guy about options for updating appliances and annex etc and keeping it lightweight and also a couple of safety precautions for the 2WD vehicle.
Feeling a lot more confident about the decision to buy the van.
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Post by Warrenk on May 21, 2019 13:15:59 GMT 10
You didn't mention what state you are in. If you are in Qld and can keep the ATM below 1020kg the registration will around half the price you would pay if you leave the ATM at 1050kg. If are happier with the higher ATM then leave it at the stated ATM of 1300kg,
Warren
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Post by elbowandchin on May 21, 2019 17:35:14 GMT 10
Hi Warren. I'm in NSW. Van is in Qld, but out of rego. I'm trucking it down to me.
1,300kg just doesn't feel right to me. Kinda high for such a little van.
I'll try to find some other owners of the same van and get their advice.
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Post by pisces51 on May 21, 2019 22:22:11 GMT 10
G'day elbowandchin,
There are two members of this forum who are York fans, and can help you with weight info for your van..."twocutekelpies" (Shelley) and "captivnut" (Arthur). Either or both will respond to your question when they read this thread. Shelley also has a Facebook group for Millard and York owners - search Google for "Millard & York Caravan Owners - Australia Facebook".
cheers,Al.
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Post by elbowandchin on May 22, 2019 6:39:08 GMT 10
Fantastic! Thanks, I'll track them down.
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Post by 78466noM on May 22, 2019 9:04:10 GMT 10
Gooday elbowandchin your brake question is yes you are looking at the 1500kg towing weight though if your budget allows and you are not doing a restoratiIon to original spec's a change over to electric brakes will make towing it for you a lot better. Read up here and on other sites on what is needed and you will be surprised at how cheap electric brakes can be. the biggest cost is if you need some one to put them on for you. Have fun I have found I have been to places I wouldn't have been to with out the van. ps read up as much as you can before you do something and ask questions this will save you a lot of time and money in the long run as it did for me I still made mistakes but only a few compared to what I could have If I didn't.
you will be surprised how many people will help you here and do so with a smile.
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Post by 78466noM on May 22, 2019 9:10:59 GMT 10
Hi Warren. I'm in NSW. Van is in Qld, but out of rego. I'm trucking it down to me. 1,300kg just doesn't feel right to me. Kinda high for such a little van. I'll try to find some other owners of the same van and get their advice. I will assume the 1300kg's is the loaded weight not the tare for example my 16.9ft millard tared over the weigh bridge at 1160kg's still full of tools plus all the extras such as column oil heater microwave all the cup plates cutlery pots and cooking utensils as I ran out of time to clean the tools out. |
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Post by elbowandchin on May 22, 2019 9:20:34 GMT 10
Yes, as I noted in the original post, the 1,300kg is the ATM given by the vendor, but it seems high. Especially as the tare is 720kg. I'm taking Nickd15's advice and sticking to more like 1,050kg.
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Post by elbowandchin on May 24, 2019 13:29:26 GMT 10
In case anyone's following along, I now know the old NSW rego of the van and have done a search.
The 1,300kg refers to the Gross Vehicle Mass, not the ATM. So the woman I'm buying it from (a bit of a nutty character) just has it confused.
But now I just want to confirm that it's the VEHICLE manufacturer that states the GVM, isn't it? Not the van manufacturer, so even though the old rego for the van says GVM 1,300kg, that would relate to the vehicle of the old registration, wouldn't it? Because my vehicle's GVM is 2,000kg.
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Post by captivenut on May 24, 2019 15:02:20 GMT 10
Hi elbowandchin, as far as I am aware GVM is a misnomer when applied to caravans. I believe it's a term that relates to motor vehicles and the correct term used for caravans & trailers is ATM.
Getting back to your 11ft York. If it's all factory original with no modifications, additions, etc, I would expect the Tare would be a tad under 750kgms (maybe 680kgms?) and the ATM would be about 300kgms above the Tare. From what I have gleaned, most of the small Yorks had 13" Holden HT stud pattern rims, Holden LM bearings, Torana brake shoes, and a 40mm square axle on 5 leaf springs - from an engineering perspective that combination will allow a maximum load of 1000kgms but the various states may have their own individual interpretations.
Good luck with your project.
Cheers, Arthur
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Post by 78466noM on May 24, 2019 16:01:29 GMT 10
In case anyone's following along, I now know the old NSW rego of the van and have done a search. The 1,300kg refers to the Gross Vehicle Mass, not the ATM. So the woman I'm buying it from (a bit of a nutty character) just has it confused. But now I just want to confirm that it's the VEHICLE manufacturer that states the GVM, isn't it? Not the van manufacturer, so even though the old rego for the van says GVM 1,300kg, that would relate to the vehicle of the old registration, wouldn't it? Because my vehicle's GVM is 2,000kg. It is the gvm of van that is van sitting on own unhitched. As long as you stay under that and the tow vehicle is rated to tow that weight then all is legal . I had my van blue slipped in NSW and it has a max weight of 2500kg's as that is what the mechanic that did the blue slip said it was. It won't get to 1500kg's so in the long term wasn't worth the argument that it should be lower .
as captivenut said your van should be well under what your car can tow.
have fun and stay safe .
I hope the little york give you tons of happy adventures our millard has for us and still plenty to go
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Post by elbowandchin on May 25, 2019 18:45:25 GMT 10
Thank you!!
I'm getting so freaking excited. I haven't been this excited about a THING in many, many years. I used to own a 1978 Leyland Mini that was my folly and my greatest love, but I had to sell it to pay for a new engine in the family car. I was heartbroken. Now I'm about to have a new folly and it's a great feeling. Fun ahead!
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