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Post by mynewstudio on Oct 19, 2019 13:47:14 GMT 10
Partially bubble wrapped LOL
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Post by mynewstudio on Oct 19, 2019 13:48:40 GMT 10
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Post by Mustang on Oct 20, 2019 6:07:55 GMT 10
Getting there, it will be nice to have the unit to lock up. Keep us posted with progress. Cheers brent
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Post by mynewstudio on Oct 21, 2019 13:19:45 GMT 10
Hi guys. Desperately seeking some quick advice here...when fitting out the interior using 3mm ply, is it essential to nog out the frame under each ply join? I will be using 3mm gloss white ply and the corresponding H shaped joiners and internal corner joiners. It is a 25mm box steel frame. In regards to screws, are wafer heads the best choice?
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Post by pisces51 on Oct 22, 2019 8:37:42 GMT 10
G'day MNS, No, it's not essential to to allow for the joining strip. You will end up with a very slight cupping of the wallboard where it fits into the strip, but it won't be readily noticeable. Most sunroom extensions on houses in the '70s were built using random-grooved wall panelling and plastic joining strips on the inside walls. Wafer head screws are fine. These are extensively used on metal sheds to fix the metal sheets to the steel frame.
When it comes down to it, you are basically creating a "metal shed / outdoor sunroom" yourself.😉
Cheers, Al.
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Post by pisces51 on Oct 22, 2019 8:49:22 GMT 10
I meant to say in my post above that for a higher quality appearance inside your studio, you would use screws with a head colour that matches the white of the wallboard. This may mean you use "button head screws" which are usually available in the range of Bluescope Colorbond colours. Not a great deal of difference between a wafer head and button head screw.
Cheers, Al.
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Post by mynewstudio on Oct 22, 2019 9:43:53 GMT 10
Thankyou so much for your reply Al, I really appreciate it!! Is the cupping/sagging likely to become more noticeable over time though? I guess I'm just worried that I will put all this work into the bones, then be let down by the appearance of the final finish inside, if the 3mm ply decides to sag lol.
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Post by twocutekelpies on Oct 22, 2019 10:43:38 GMT 10
If the ply is fastened to the wall frames in enough places, there shouldn't be any sag over time unless the fasteners give way. I've used rivets to put my ply walls up (no glue), the same as was originally used. I did try white rivets to match but they're only available in shorter lengths and not long enough to go all the way through and hold. I cut a hole in a piece of cardboard and spray painted the heads of the standard rivets to blend them in a bit better.
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Post by mynewstudio on Oct 22, 2019 10:53:11 GMT 10
Thanks twocutekelpies!! I LOVE this forum!!!
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Post by pisces51 on Oct 22, 2019 11:31:34 GMT 10
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Post by twocutekelpies on Oct 22, 2019 11:51:34 GMT 10
Yep, I ended up using 4.4 (10mm) rivets as I managed to pick up a box of 1000 on clearance for $7 at the big green shed and spray painting the heads afterwards
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Post by Mustang on Oct 23, 2019 6:42:23 GMT 10
We used the pre painted ply also with no glue. To hide the counter sunk screws we used a round sticker ,similar colour to the sheet, available in Packets of 100.
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Post by mynewstudio on Oct 24, 2019 6:08:27 GMT 10
Mustang, when you say 'pre painted ply', what product was it exactly? I spoke to a guy yesterday who told me that I should nog out the whole van with a H4 treated timber, putting the nogging on top of the existing frame (there's depth to work with, with my window frames, so that's not an issue). After nogging the whole van ($$$$!!!) he said I should then glue, rather than screw, to prevent the risk of the gloss ply splitting/splintering, and to prevent potential broken screws from drilling into the steel frame and hence wrecking the gloss ply. Needless to say, I feel like I'm back at square one. Now I'm stressed about whether or not I'm doing the right thing by thinking about screwing. I wonder whether Twocutekelpies or Pisces51 have any more input to allay my fears of screwing! I understand that working with the gloss is a splinter risk, and in saying that, at $50+ a sheet, I can't afford to wreck one or experiment on one. **sigh** More decisions.
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Post by pisces51 on Oct 24, 2019 11:31:18 GMT 10
G'day MNS,
Heck, nothing like making a project more complicated than it needs to be!
Before you gutted the van, the walls and ceiling panelling had happily stood there for 40 years without "sagging" after bumping around on the highways. Why is the new panelling likely to behave differently?
Your options are: 1. Fix the new panelling to the frame using "stud adhesive" which replicates how they fix plasterboard to steel frames in houses. No screws or rivets, leaving a clean surface on the panelling.
2. Use stud adhesive PLUS screws or rivets on the ceiling only, to help secure the ceiling better. No stud adhesive on the walls.
3. Use screws or rivets on the panelling everywhere, without any stud adhesive.
For a home studio "up on blocks", any of these options will be successful. Whichever option you choose will depend on dollars/time/effort.
If you choose the 'screws/rivets only' option, I would drill a hole through the wallboard where each screw/rivet is going. That stops any splintering of the wallboard face. This is important if you use the self-drilling type of button head screw. If using a rivet, you have to drill a hole anyway.
Cheers, Al.
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Post by mynewstudio on Oct 24, 2019 12:32:08 GMT 10
I know right!! I feel like I spend equal amounts of time worrying about doing things right, and actually doing them Yes, it would be much easier and neater to glue I reckon, although I've sort of made that harder on myself in using the aircell insulation...means I can't glue to the frame.
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Post by pisces51 on Oct 24, 2019 15:49:14 GMT 10
Ahh, yes...now that I go back and look at all your photos, I can see what you are up against.
How is the aircell insulation fixed to the frame at the moment?
Aircell is 6mm thick, and quite spongey when pressed between your fingers. Any screws or rivets are going to pull the wallboard in on top of the aircell, giving you a "dip" in the surface of the wallboard at that point. Wouldn't be a level surface across each wallboard, I think.
I guess screws would be the better option, because at least you can govern how far in the screw is turned, and stop when it looks like the wallboard surface is starting to get pulled in.
Having the aircell fully covering the frame creates extra work trying to line the edges of wallboard sheets up with the centre of the framing studs (uprights). You only have 25mm width of frame, and a joining strip has a 10mm face, leaving you just 7.5mm either side to put a screw. Not a lot of room for error!
If I was doing your project, I would go back and cut the aircell so it fits inside the framework. A small dollop of cartridge adhesive (about 10c piece size) should fix each corner of the aircell piece in position against the outer cladding. Aircell works best if there is a 50mm gap between the metal and the insulation, but you're never gonna achieve that, so whatever you do with the aircell now is only going to provide a token level of insulation.
Enough raving on from me!😄
Cheers, Al.
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Post by mynewstudio on Oct 24, 2019 16:18:37 GMT 10
It's not raving, it's sharing ! I appreciate the feedback immensely. I've attached the insulation with a spray adhesive, so it is actually quite easily removable should I need to at this point. I figured that by using the aircell, or bubblewrap as I call it LOL, it was the most cost effective and thinnest option. I realise that it's not going to be a fantastic insulator but I figured, better than nothing. This is a big learning experience and I'm pretty wary of wastage in materials, time, and $$, hence my hesitation I suppose.
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Post by pisces51 on Oct 24, 2019 19:55:09 GMT 10
Yes, Aircell, or other similar products, have an insulating value of 2.0, which is at the lower end of the scale compared with fibreglass batts that can be as high as 3.5. But, as you say, something is better than nothing.
Ten years ago I had a 13 X 9m Colorbond steel shed built on a property, so I could restore caravans under cover. The roof peak height was 4.5m above the concrete floor. Aircell was put under the roof sheeting, but if I was within a metre of the roof (up a ladder) on a hot day, the temperature was too uncomfortable.
I used some of the leftover Aircell in my vintage van when I rebuilt it. Same as you, thought "something better than nothing", and it was just sitting there taking up space. Last Xmas-New Year, we spent 10 days in NE Vic region, with daily temps 30 - 35 deg. At the end of each day, the van was a real hotbox. So, Aircell on its own doesn't make a great deal of difference.
Cheers, Al.
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Post by mynewstudio on Nov 17, 2019 12:51:44 GMT 10
Change of plans for the insulation bits and application of the ply...I've decided to pull it all down and cut out bits to fit in around the frame. *Sigh* So much time and materials wasted. I've just organised some props to hold the sheets up (ceiling first) while the adhesive cures. Wish me luck, I'm about to make the first cut
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Post by pisces51 on Nov 18, 2019 20:46:59 GMT 10
G'day mns, Ten years ago I restored a 1976 Millard poptop. I cut and fitted aircell insulation in between the timber framework, but opposite to the way you are doing yours. I took the cladding off the van to repair damaged/rotten timber and then put insulation pieces into position before refitting the external cladding. At the start of cutting and fitting the pieces of insulation into the framework, I tried to carefully measure and cut the insulation so it was a "neat fit" into the frame, using small dollops of Sika FC adhesive to hold it in position. A slow and tedious way to do it! Then I accidentally discovered that if I cut the insulation piece so it was 2-3mm wider than the opening, it could be pushed into position and hold itself there without the need for any adhesive. Sort of like wedging the insulation into position. That made the job heaps easier and quicker! This first photo group shows the van when the insulation was completed, and the second one shows how easy it is to cut the insulation around any wiring/switches... Five years ago I completed my vintage caravan rebuild, and used the remaining aircell and some thermocell insulation on the roof and ends of the van. I cut the insulation slightly oversize on the top-to-bottom dimension, and wedged it between the framework. But because of the size of each insulation piece, I also added a few dollops of Sika adhesive along the centreline from side to side, to hold it in position. These photos show the progress of fitting the insulation... When you cut your insulation into pieces for the side frames, you can experiment with cutting the piece slightly oversize, and see if it holds in position by itself. If it doesn't, try a slightly more oversize dimension (say 5mm) and see if that holds fast. For the ceiling pieces, you may find you don't need much propping up of the insulation if the wedging and adhesive do the job. The insulation is pretty lightweight stuff when cut into each piece you require, so it shouldn't need much assistance to stay in position. You can experiment with a ceiling piece by doing a "dry fit" (no adhesive) and see what happens. There shouldn't be much wastage of insulation material. You don't need a full one-piece to fit into a frame opening. You can always cut 2 or 3 smaller pieces and just butt them together to make up the full width or height of the opening. Keep plugging away. You'll be proud of the end result! cheers, Al.
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Post by mynewstudio on Nov 26, 2019 6:38:19 GMT 10
Thanks Al, I really appreciate the detail you put into that post. I've got the insulation done now and have just put the first internal sheet up - yaaaaay!!
I cut the ply with a 1mm cutting disc, no taping needed. It's attached to the frame with Sika 11fc.
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Post by pisces51 on Nov 26, 2019 20:27:01 GMT 10
G'day MNS, I reckon you'll agree you've done a first-class job on the insulation, which will make measuring and fitting the internal panelling so much easier!😎
Gotta love the props you are using...they look like they were used to hold up the Sydney Harbour bridge during construction!😁
Congrats on the work you've done so far. Quality stuff!😎😁
Cheers, Al.
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Post by mynewstudio on Nov 29, 2019 19:33:19 GMT 10
Why thankyou Al Yes I was lucky enough to be able to borrow those for as long as it takes (I have very limited time, it'll be a while ) from a friend with lots of useful stuff I'm actually very glad I've changed the insulation attachment. I had better put my van door back on, in the hope that it helps with the condensation in the mornings, I'm worried that it will damage the sheets now. Always something isn't there.
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Post by mynewstudio on Feb 5, 2020 16:41:04 GMT 10
I could cry, seriously. I have used a corner moulding that goes with the sheeting that I am using (gloss white 3mm ply). The ceiling looks great. I grabbed a scrap piece of the ply today, and tried to fit it up into the wall part of the moulding, and it won't fit. Somehow the moulding has been squished to the point that even with a bit of force, it won't go up into the moulding. I don't know why this has happened. This means I have to completely rethink how I do things for the entire walls of the caravan, and just hope that a 2.7mm plain ply might fit up into the moulding. I'm a bit devastated. This is the corner moulding (not the exact brand, but the same shape - internal corner) external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.agnewbuildingsupplies.com.au%2Fcdn%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Flarge%2Fexternal_636933354419048437.png&f=1&nofb=1
I expected to be able to slot the walls sheets up into the moulding.
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Post by twocutekelpies on Feb 5, 2020 17:28:07 GMT 10
Mine was quite tight as well but I was able to guide it in with a plastic spatula. Some have had to rebate their edge a little to make it fit.
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