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Post by doublechevron on Aug 12, 2016 9:44:53 GMT 10
Give me a break. If you run up the back of someone you are 100% at fault .... full stop ... end of story. I can park my car on a busy road and walk away from it. Anyone that runs into the back of it is still at fault. Given your criteria, every truck that gets run up the arse of, will be 100% at fault as they did the most damage .... what a bizare way of looking at stuff. next you'll be telling me the big heavy bullbar on my car will make me liable for anyone that runs into it! If your so worried, I'll stamp you up a build plate... put on it "Shanes towbars". You'll then be legal. Much like any trailer I make I can stamp "Homemade" into and it's 100% legal. You just pay the $10 bucks for the compliance plate and fill it out yourself. seeya, Shane L. In the insurance world , generally, any driver who does not take reasonable care is at fault. And I did say " A rear end accident might get split" , all depends on the circumstances. (Who's fault if you run into the rear of a car legally/ illegally/broken down parked in a dark spot at night, around a sharp bend, without it's lights on? And due to oncoming traffic without option to swerve. Yours? 100%? ) Ask Shannons for a copy of their Fault Determination Rules What's "bizarre" is your way of interpreting what is actually stated in posts ... simple criteria " non-compliant aftermarket fitting".
For the record.. I've been a registered trailer builder since 1995, also have made over 1500 towbars (@1200 being truck towbars) and fitted many from Holden to Hino since the early eighties to recently. I can tell you straight, for many years all tow bars need to be certified. Fixing a dodgy compliance plate on one won't pass muster if push comes to shove. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just checked my insurance policy... General Exclusions
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You are not covered under this policy:
- If the car has any modification from the manufactures original design without our written agreement. How did I not read this correctly. You build trailers ? Mate... Your 100% right. if your building trailers as a business... Your business is 100% liable for any towbar that leaves and must be plated correctly. To cover yourself. As it is a new current towbar. Any homemade towbar fitted to a car simply isn't relevant. ( Can you prove it was made yesterday and not 30years ago after all  ). As soon as you talk running a business. This stuff all changes. You simply can't take a risk with anything  My sister inlaw is getting a trailer build down at Bills Trailers in Melbourne. A food trailer (I just about bloody fell over, some $60,000 all up completed). My wife has been insisting I need to go look at it as she googled reviews of the place.... They are all bad (except the obvious fake reviews). You know .... His trailers looked structurally sound... Sure there not perfect, but all the review were utter bullshit. Every weld looked good to me. Lots of bracing, plenty strong enough, no spindly drawbars .... I'd buy one tomorrow with no hesitation. Sure there was stuff I didn't like about the way the food van is built. But they were 100% safe and ok from what I could see. What's the world coming to when you can't believe everything you read online seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 12:06:57 GMT 10
Shane this whole certified towbar thing came home to me yesterday when at a mate's workshop , he was doing a job on a light truck based motorhome fitting a hitch'n'go but first he needed to fit a towbar and ordered one from Hayman Reese the bloody thing comes unassembled the main bit is all done but then the ends are just pre cut stamped for whatever vehicle it is to be fitted to so you fit the chassis bits slide the centre square bar into them and weld the suckers in place , this is all fine IF it is a qualified or capable welder doing it not some slack backyarder with an Aldi special stick machine  BUT the shocker here is the bar centre is stamped and certified this is PRE having the ends welded on  They seem to have just several central styles to cover all makes then heaps of precut end plates ready to be fitted bit like Ikea just need a allen key  |
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Post by doublechevron on Aug 12, 2016 14:30:07 GMT 10
 Tell me your kidding Most people proficient at fabrication will make the bar from scratch (it's no big deal). I don't like the idea of selling a "complete" towbar that needs welding. I'd probably do it as I can weld it and verify all my welds are ok. You may find that towbar is only supposed to be sold to "trade" and never the general public. As anyone in trade will have a certified welder do any welding to cover themselves. For anything like a trailer/caravan drawbar.... I'd outsource it though. A part of this stuff is knowing your limitatons. Welding on somethign critical like a drawbar laying on you back under a trailer is something I'd never do. seeya, shane L. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 18:15:09 GMT 10
Tell me your kidding Most people proficient at fabrication will make the bar from scratch (it's no big deal). I don't like the idea of selling a "complete" towbar that needs welding. I'd probably do it as I can weld it and verify all my welds are ok. You may find that towbar is only supposed to be sold to "trade" and never the general public. As anyone in trade will have a certified welder do any welding to cover themselves. For anything like a trailer/caravan drawbar.... I'd outsource it though. A part of this stuff is knowing your limitatons. Welding on somethign critical like a drawbar laying on you back under a trailer is something I'd never do. seeya, shane L. I agree 100% but how often do you hear of someone getting a mate in the trade to purchase things on the cheap ? these are quite clever as with the cutout taking most of the load even a crap weld would probably hold up this was a bar rated to 3.5T Btw  the technical bit is getting the draw central  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 21:28:46 GMT 10
Shane this whole certified towbar thing came home to me yesterday when at a mate's workshop , he was doing a job on a light truck based motorhome fitting a hitch'n'go but first he needed to fit a towbar and ordered one from Hayman Reese the bloody thing comes unassembled the main bit is all done but then the ends are just pre cut stamped for whatever vehicle it is to be fitted to so you fit the chassis bits slide the centre square bar into them and weld the suckers in place , this is all fine IF it is a qualified or capable welder doing it not some slack backyarder with an Aldi special stick machine BUT the shocker here is the bar centre is stamped and certified this is PRE having the ends welded on They seem to have just several central styles to cover all makes then heaps of precut end plates ready to be fitted bit like Ikea just need a allen key It's true, any nong handy with a tape measure and welder can build a towbar. Then there's the questions like have they got the right design, correct material, size and thicknesses, suitable bolts ( Bolt shear equation ), included crush tubes (box chassis), etc; Failure of one or more could result in an accident and/or lawful case of negligence. It's why we have standards, regulations and engineers. Most companies sell towbar 'kits' to businesses and include fitting/welding instructions that clearly state a qualified person must do the fitting/welding and will not accept liability otherwise. In respect to a 3500kg bar, the same model towbar may be fitted to many different vehicles, the variabless are chassis width, drop required, etc; hence loose end plates. Reputable companies like Bartlett Equpment will forward the etched compliance plate after being inspected and passed by a Registered Engineering Signatory. Towbars - Compliance and Safety A towbar may be scrutinised for compliance in all states of Australia under the following circumstances: Inspection by a Registered Engineering Signatory During the registration process Routine roadside inspections/annual vehicle inspections/roadworthy tests Police investigation in the event of an accident Insurance assessment in the event of an accident Vehicle owner/operator checking compliance Design Regulations ADR62 Australian Design Rule 62, Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 62/02 – Mechanical Connections Between Vehicles) 2007AS4177.1 Australian Standard - Caravan and light trailer towing components - Towbars and towing brackets. www.standards.com.au google search
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Post by doublechevron on Aug 14, 2016 22:56:45 GMT 10
Shane this whole certified towbar thing came home to me yesterday when at a mate's workshop , he was doing a job on a light truck based motorhome fitting a hitch'n'go but first he needed to fit a towbar and ordered one from Hayman Reese the bloody thing comes unassembled the main bit is all done but then the ends are just pre cut stamped for whatever vehicle it is to be fitted to so you fit the chassis bits slide the centre square bar into them and weld the suckers in place , this is all fine IF it is a qualified or capable welder doing it not some slack backyarder with an Aldi special stick machine BUT the shocker here is the bar centre is stamped and certified this is PRE having the ends welded on They seem to have just several central styles to cover all makes then heaps of precut end plates ready to be fitted bit like Ikea just need a allen key It's true, any nong handy with a tape measure and welder can build a towbar. Then there's the questions like have they got the right design, correct material, size and thicknesses, suitable bolts ( Bolt shear equation ), included crush tubes (box chassis), etc; Failure of one or more could result in an accident and/or lawful case of negligence. It's why we have standards, regulations and engineers. Most companies sell towbar 'kits' to businesses and include fitting/welding instructions that clearly state a qualified person must do the fitting/welding and will not accept liability otherwise. In respect to a 3500kg bar, the same model towbar may be fitted to many different vehicles, the variabless are chassis width, drop required, etc; hence loose end plates. Reputable companies like Bartlett Equpment will forward the etched compliance plate after being inspected and passed by a Registered Engineering Signatory. Towbars - Compliance and Safety A towbar may be scrutinised for compliance in all states of Australia under the following circumstances: Inspection by a Registered Engineering Signatory During the registration process Routine roadside inspections/annual vehicle inspections/roadworthy tests Police investigation in the event of an accident Insurance assessment in the event of an accident Vehicle owner/operator checking compliance Design Regulations ADR62 Australian Design Rule 62, Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 62/02 – Mechanical Connections Between Vehicles) 2007AS4177.1 Australian Standard - Caravan and light trailer towing components - Towbars and towing brackets. www.standards.com.au google search
Wow ... Really, I'm not fussed... My old home made bars have been happily giving service for upto 50year.... I personally don't see why they won't last another 50 Have you ever heard of a towbar failing ? Yeah me neither seeya, Shane L. |
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Post by atefooterz on Aug 16, 2016 0:08:52 GMT 10
The main thing about the various points rasied, in my opinion, is modern day life V the old days. I used to climb up to 60m towers to instal stuff. I had almost 15 years of tower work off & on however with dodgey knees and not really enjoying doing it, i never got my riggers ticket. No biggie and just when i was safe thinking i will not be climbing again i got sent to central Asia where no ticket requirements were enforced and worked along side locals with no harnesses & leather flip flops! No injuries on my watch and by the 2nd or 3rd day on any site i had the locals harnessed and in new or borrowed shoes! Meanwhile fast forward a decade and i had to get a working at heights ticket, to use a ladder or climb onto roofs to instal things = any work enviroment over 1.6m from memory. The only reason was best practice & ISO standards, sure i could prove i can work safely on a 2m ladder but the multinational company i was contracted to would not allow that, they just follow the bits of paper for liability saying employees must have A,B, C and or D for insurance compliance. So can we get away with things = hell yeah! If some spotty teenage penpusher forces us to pay $500,000.00 if it hits the fan, then we need to be able to lay that freight on the table or enjoy the freedom of a coin toss result from what we know or got away with back then.
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Post by 78466noM on Aug 16, 2016 11:13:50 GMT 10
Good luck with the tow-bar I'm not sure but I think the early mustang shared floor pans with the XR falcon in the states they are a 2 door sprint so if that is the case your fabricator should have an easy job of fitting it. It would also be a talking point every where it is seen towing your van have fun be safe Bruce  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 17:32:54 GMT 10
Have you ever heard of a towbar failing ? Yeah me neither seeya, Shane L. I've seen a number of failed towbars due to cracked welds, overloading, etc; also the severely ripped underside of a XD Falcon wagon (A diy modified towbar bolted in all the wrong places.).  |
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Post by doublechevron on Aug 19, 2016 21:56:29 GMT 10
Have you ever heard of a towbar failing ? Yeah me neither seeya, Shane L. I've seen a number of failed towbars due to cracked welds, overloading, etc; also the severely ripped underside of a XD Falcon wagon (A diy modified towbar bolted in all the wrong places.). I've seen early commonbores with cracked C pillars (factory towbars). I've also seen failed hayman reece box receivers. I think that would have been shock loads due to accidents |
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Post by atefooterz on Aug 19, 2016 23:00:11 GMT 10
The weirdest crack i had was on a Spacia ( Town Ace) Toyota that the drivers door front window pillar sheered where it joined at the horizontal. Welded & sold pronto! |
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Post by 78466noM on Aug 20, 2016 10:51:41 GMT 10
Good luck with the tow-bar I'm not sure but I think the early mustang shared floor pans with the XR falcon in the states they are a 2 door sprint so if that is the case your fabricator should have an easy job of fitting it. It would also be a talking point every where it is seen towing your van have fun be safe Bruce I was talking to a work mate who owns a xm falcon he rebuilt he said the floor pan on his is the same as the mustang . we only got the six cylinder versions in the states they had a V8 option |
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BUT the shocker here is the bar centre is stamped and certified this is PRE having the ends welded on 
They seem to have just several central styles to cover all makes then heaps of precut end plates ready to be fitted bit like Ikea just need a allen key 
the technical bit is getting the draw central 
