|
|
Post by Mustang on Aug 1, 2016 19:16:02 GMT 10
Hi Members
We are intending to have a custom tow bar fitted to our newly renovated Mustang, does any one know if it needs to be signed off by an engineer?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 19:22:12 GMT 10
Mmmmm not IF  it was fitted back in '71 they never had stamps back then different thing if fitted today just sayin'  |
|
|
|
Post by atefooterz on Aug 3, 2016 7:37:00 GMT 10
Hi Members We are intending to have a custom tow bar fitted to our newly renovated Mustang, does any one know if it needs to be signed off by an engineer? The joy of the QLD system is if you get pulled over for a roadworthy i am sure the towbar will not be blu tacked onto the boot undersides and made from 10mm tubing with a rattan square laced on tow ball... so will pass visual muster!  The reality would be how the load is taken on the Mustang chassis, as i guess the actual tow bar assembly is a relatively known factor, for the weight you are designing it to. My fussy NSW blue slip guy texted he always looks for a brand name on a bar, or on older ones, that it looks secure no signs of bending/ stress cracks in paint and rust free, especially where attatched, when up on the hoist. |
|
|
|
Post by tasmillard on Aug 3, 2016 8:33:47 GMT 10
Yes I recon mate. I want to change my towbar setting to take more than the ridiculous 120kg max ball weight. I require an engineer cert and new plate to be fixed onto the bar for this to be legal (in Tas anyway).
Cheers,
|
|
|
|
Post by Warrenk on Aug 3, 2016 11:57:00 GMT 10
The towbar has to have a compliance plate if it is manufactured after the mid 80's, so a new towbar will need to be signed of by an engineer. If built before that there is no requirement for compliance. So your towbar just needs to built 20 years ago. An old towbar sandblasted and painted will always look like a new one. Wynumn Towbars will built you a custom engineered towbar for Mustang. Warren |
|
|
|
Post by doublechevron on Aug 3, 2016 14:40:59 GMT 10
I've made them myself in the past. Just download the build sheet for your mustang. Reqalisically you have it very easy. There is a chassis there to bolt it too... The monocoque design of nearly all of my cars (even dating back to the 1930s) mean you need to be very careful how they are bolted on.
Just buy a hitch receiver (box type) and make it up yourself. You'll probably make it 1000% stronger than it needs to be .... if your anything like most DIY people.
seeya,
shane L.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 16:59:15 GMT 10
Just a thought IF you fit a receiver type it would definitely need to be engineer certified  as in '71 the cars were fitted with the old style bars not hitches so depends on which way you want to go , a home made bar with a hitch receiver would not be my option of choice  without an engineer's certification which would be 4-500 dollars I would think on top of the bar cost  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 20:27:15 GMT 10
I wouldn't worry about the cops , doubt they'd know what to look for.. It's the insurance companies that will provide a sting in the event of an accident. Even a non-towing rear end accident might find you out of pocket for full costs due to a non-compliant aftermarket fitting. Read your policy carefully.
If you find an off the rack towbar to your liking, the maker should be able to modify with engineer approval at a lower cost than full certification.
|
|
|
|
Post by doublechevron on Aug 4, 2016 15:50:52 GMT 10
I wouldn't worry about the cops , doubt they'd know what to look for.. It's the insurance companies that will provide a sting in the event of an accident. Even a non-towing rear end accident might find you out of pocket for full costs due to a non-compliant aftermarket fitting. Read your policy carefully. If you find an off the rack towbar to your liking, the maker should be able to modify with engineer approval at a lower cost than full certification. Realistically I have NEVER heard of this ever happening with any insurance company. Someone like Shannons would never risk there name in the classic car area with such a bullshit claim After all, every single towbar on pretty much ever car they insure will NOT be plated. NONE of mine are! seeya, Shane L. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 16:30:50 GMT 10
My point perzactly  mine on the Z is the same home made , well shop made back in '61 just recently sand blasted and painted with a new tongue |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 23:03:38 GMT 10
Realistically I have NEVER heard of this ever happening with any insurance company. Someone like Shannons would never risk there name in the classic car area with such a bullshit claim After all, every single towbar on pretty much ever car they insure will NOT be plated. NONE of mine are! seeya, Shane L.
Car Insurance for Towbar-Fitted Vehicles
"insurers deem fitting a towbar to your car a modification, which if they’re not notified about, could see your insurance become invalid."
Odds on, any new bar fitted must pass compliance for insurance purposes. Like I said "Read your policy carefully" and it'll be a good idea to check with your insurance company. |
|
|
|
Post by doublechevron on Aug 8, 2016 10:12:29 GMT 10
Realistically I have NEVER heard of this ever happening with any insurance company. Someone like Shannons would never risk there name in the classic car area with such a bullshit claim After all, every single towbar on pretty much ever car they insure will NOT be plated. NONE of mine are! seeya, Shane L.
Car Insurance for Towbar-Fitted Vehicles
"insurers deem fitting a towbar to your car a modification, which if they’re not notified about, could see your insurance become invalid."
Odds on, any new bar fitted must pass compliance for insurance purposes. Like I said "Read your policy carefully" and it'll be a good idea to check with your insurance company. What insurance company ..... Where is this in any PDS ? I'll say it again .... Have you ever heard of ... anywhere in the world someone being denied a claim due to the towbar fitted to there car. You'd go straight to one of those crappy tv current affairs problems and court. The idea that **anything** is going to be "original" on a 25+ year old car is ludicrous to say the least. I just checked all the shannons PDS etc.... no mention of towbars anywhere. seeya, Shane L. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 21:39:26 GMT 10
Car Insurance for Towbar-Fitted Vehicles
"insurers deem fitting a towbar to your car a modification, which if they’re not notified about, could see your insurance become invalid."
Odds on, any new bar fitted must pass compliance for insurance purposes. Like I said "Read your policy carefully" and it'll be a good idea to check with your insurance company. What insurance company ..... Where is this in any PDS ? I'll say it again .... Have you ever heard of ... anywhere in the world someone being denied a claim due to the towbar fitted to there car. You'd go straight to one of those crappy tv current affairs problems and court. The idea that **anything** is going to be "original" on a 25+ year old car is ludicrous to say the least. I just checked all the shannons PDS etc.... no mention of towbars anywhere. seeya, Shane L. Try a google search and use of ctrl f. More often than not a PDS is a generalised document as too are PEDs At the end of the day it's the insurance policy that will spell it out in full;. Shannons PDS page 8: " You need to tell us immediately if:Any modifications and/or accessories are fitted to your
vehicle that you have not told us about." (- 10 references to 'modifications' all up )Shannons PED (1 reference to towbar)
AAMI has 7 references in their pds Canstar Insurance"Other things that could void your car insurance claim:
Any undisclosed modifications.Overloading a car or trailer being towed.Most things that can void your insurance cover are all simple. They are things that, reasonably, an insurance provider should be able to expect you to do. Yet this research indicates that many people continue to make these mistakes and could potentially end up paying for them. The excuse of “I forgot” or “I didn't realise” simply won't wash with your insurer when you go to make a claim. That's why it's vital all drivers are completely au fait with the terms of their policy."
"I'll say it again .... Have you ever heard of ... anywhere in the world someone being denied a claim due to the towbar fitted to there car. " - About 344,000 results (0.73 seconds) If you want to believe insurance companies will always pay a claim after you not disclosing a modification or resulting from a 55 year old uncertified towbar failure/overload, good luck to you. |
|
|
|
Post by doublechevron on Aug 8, 2016 23:21:56 GMT 10
of course you can't overload your car .... I haven't mentioned a towbar fitted to any of my cars to shannons ... it's a taken ... most cars have them fitted and the owners would not even know as the tongue isn't there. You really are worrying about nothing. Ring your insurance company and say "I have an old car iwth a towbar on it ... What do I do ?" I bet they say "Nothing" ....
The reason shannons won't to know, is they will cover the extras seperately and they increase the value of the vehicle.
seeya,
Shane L.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 23:30:49 GMT 10
In determining who was at fault in an accident, Insurance companies often split the blame as a percentage of liability. eg A rear end accident might get split 15/85. And whilst you believe Shannons will ignore it, the other drivers budget insurance company may argue excessive damage to their customers car due to an over engineered, non compliant towbar or an uninsured drivers lawyer do likewise. Followed by a demand of lesser liability claim......... Or perhaps an over zealous assessor might report it. Insurance companies, being the scum they are, in my experience, always look to escape paying. Hence, the option of voiding insurance for undisclosed modifications. Ask yourself, is not disclosing a modification worth the risk?
I'm not worried, my towbar is noted on my policy.
|
|
|
|
Post by atefooterz on Aug 9, 2016 23:59:29 GMT 10
Last year a mates car was rear ended by a car with trailer that did not stop fast enough for the red light. Mates custon towbar that could pull a D9 totalled the car that messed with it, accident impact was less than 60klm. Kudos to Coles (Lumleys) for the way everyone was paid out and or fixed within 2 weeks to cheques in hand.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 0:01:38 GMT 10
|
|
|
|
Post by doublechevron on Aug 10, 2016 9:32:24 GMT 10
In determining who was at fault in an accident, Insurance companies often split the blame as a percentage of liability. eg A rear end accident might get split 15/85. And whilst you believe Shannons will ignore it, the other drivers budget insurance company may argue excessive damage to their customers car due to an over engineered, non compliant towbar or an uninsured drivers lawyer do likewise. Followed by a demand of lesser liability claim......... Or perhaps an over zealous assessor might report it. Insurance companies, being the scum they are, in my experience, always look to escape paying. Hence, the option of voiding insurance for undisclosed modifications. Ask yourself, is not disclosing a modification worth the risk? I'm not worried, my towbar is noted on my policy. Give me a break. If you run up the back of someone you are 100% at fault .... full stop ... end of story. I can park my car on a busy road and walk away from it. Anyone that runs into the back of it is still at fault. Given your criteria, every truck that gets run up the arse of, will be 100% at fault as they did the most damage .... what a bizare way of looking at stuff. next you'll be telling me the big heavy bullbar on my car will make me liable for anyone that runs into it! If your so worried, I'll stamp you up a build plate... put on it "Shanes towbars". You'll then be legal. Much like any trailer I make I can stamp "Homemade" into and it's 100% legal. You just pay the $10 bucks for the compliance plate and fill it out yourself. seeya, Shane L. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 16:12:36 GMT 10
Give me a break. If you run up the back of someone you are 100% at fault .... full stop ... end of story. I can park my car on a busy road and walk away from it. Anyone that runs into the back of it is still at fault. Given your criteria, every truck that gets run up the arse of, will be 100% at fault as they did the most damage .... what a bizare way of looking at stuff. next you'll be telling me the big heavy bullbar on my car will make me liable for anyone that runs into it! If your so worried, I'll stamp you up a build plate... put on it "Shanes towbars". You'll then be legal. Much like any trailer I make I can stamp "Homemade" into and it's 100% legal. You just pay the $10 bucks for the compliance plate and fill it out yourself. seeya, Shane L. In the insurance world , generally, any driver who does not take reasonable care is at fault. And I did say " A rear end accident might get split" , all depends on the circumstances. (Who's fault if you run into the rear of a car legally/ illegally/broken down parked in a dark spot at night, around a sharp bend, without it's lights on? And due to oncoming traffic without option to swerve. Yours? 100%? ) Ask Shannons for a copy of their Fault Determination Rules What's "bizarre" is your way of interpreting what is actually stated in posts ... simple criteria " non-compliant aftermarket fitting".
For the record.. I've been a registered trailer builder since 1995, also have made over 1500 towbars (@1200 being truck towbars) and fitted many from Holden to Hino since the early eighties to recently. I can tell you straight, for many years all tow bars need to be certified. Fixing a dodgy compliance plate on one won't pass muster if push comes to shove. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just checked my insurance policy... General Exclusions
Page 10
You are not covered under this policy:
- If the car has any modification from the manufactures original design without our written agreement. |
|
|
|
Post by doublechevron on Aug 10, 2016 16:40:08 GMT 10
Give me a break. If you run up the back of someone you are 100% at fault .... full stop ... end of story. I can park my car on a busy road and walk away from it. Anyone that runs into the back of it is still at fault. Given your criteria, every truck that gets run up the arse of, will be 100% at fault as they did the most damage .... what a bizare way of looking at stuff. next you'll be telling me the big heavy bullbar on my car will make me liable for anyone that runs into it! If your so worried, I'll stamp you up a build plate... put on it "Shanes towbars". You'll then be legal. Much like any trailer I make I can stamp "Homemade" into and it's 100% legal. You just pay the $10 bucks for the compliance plate and fill it out yourself. seeya, Shane L. In the insurance world , generally, any driver who does not take reasonable care is at fault. And I did say " A rear end accident might get split" , all depends on the circumstances. (Who's fault if you run into the rear of a car legally/ illegally/broken down parked in a dark spot at night, around a sharp bend, without it's lights on? And due to oncoming traffic without option to swerve. Yours? 100%? ) Ask Shannons for a copy of their Fault Determination Rules What's "bizarre" is your way of interpreting what is actually stated in posts ... simple criteria " non-compliant aftermarket fitting".
For the record.. I've been a registered trailer builder since 1995, also have made over 1500 towbars (@1200 being truck towbars) and fitted many from Holden to Hino since the early eighties to recently. I can tell you straight, for many years all tow bars need to be certified. Fixing a dodgy compliance plate on one won't pass muster if push comes to shove. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just checked my insurance policy... General Exclusions
Page 10
You are not covered under this policy:
- If the car has any modification from the manufactures original design without our written agreement. Oh man this is hilarious. If I could show you have much is NOT original on my cars and caravans .... You are worrying about NOTHING. Your worried about a towbar. I built my car trailer and box trailer. No checks ever ... I've used them for years.... But please.... Stress yourself about a simple towbar if it makes you feel better. Lets see, my 1963 Citroen. non-original tires, non-asbestos brake pads, mineral oil conversion on it's hydrualics. I've fitted a powered steered rack and upgraded the hydraulic pump. The rear brake likes have had the swivels removed and replaced with flexible lines. The clutch is a later diahpram type, not a finger type... Um, the engine is a later motor fitted with a harmonic damper.... it features mostly it's original paint though.... I'm sure that cracked perished paint that shows the metal will keep the insurance companies happy LOL. OH, and don't forget the home made towbar ... that was likely made 53years ago.... Still going strong. I dont' get why your so worried about nothing. I strongly suggest avoiding vintage cars and caravans before you have stress attacks about all the "modified" bits seeya, Shane L. |
|
|
|
Post by Mustang on Aug 10, 2016 16:48:06 GMT 10
Well there you go, thanks guys for such an informative debate.
The Mustang has now full rego, when I rang to advise (Ryno) the response was "Thankyou for advising" no increase in your policy, WOW!!!!!
If I go ahead with the tow bar I will certainly advise.
Cheers & remain friends,
Brent
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 18:44:39 GMT 10
You're welcome Brent... good luck.
Shane.. I have no worries.. just know how the insurance bloodsuckers work and the odd zealous official. (Like the Ballarat cop whom has a thing for checking 'D' Shackles are properly stamped and are of correct tonnage rating for the trailer/caravan towed.)
|
|
|
|
Post by atefooterz on Aug 11, 2016 1:38:30 GMT 10
You're welcome Brent... good luck. Shane.. I have no worries.. just know how the insurance bloodsuckers work and the odd zealous official. (Like the Ballarat cop whom has a thing for checking 'D' Shackles are properly stamped and are of correct tonnage rating for the trailer/caravan towed.) When i get bored i may start doing laps around Ballarat to find Mr Plod, then enjoy the Courthouse fun later, about imaginary laws V recomendations. Good excuse to get there in Oct for the yacht club opening day. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 5:56:11 GMT 10
When i get bored i may start doing laps around Ballarat to find Mr Plod, then enjoy the Courthouse fun later, about imaginary laws V recomendations. Good excuse to get there in Oct for the yacht club opening day. Shock Horror that would require leaving the 'Gong  who knows what is out there in the big bad world outside Woolongong doin' laps at Ballarat might be totally different to doin laps in the 'Gong  the sheila's might not unnersand the cool 'Gong slang like G'day !! |
|
|
|
Post by atefooterz on Aug 11, 2016 17:13:34 GMT 10
When i get bored i may start doing laps around Ballarat to find Mr Plod, then enjoy the Courthouse fun later, about imaginary laws V recomendations. Good excuse to get there in Oct for the yacht club opening day. Shock Horror that would require leaving the 'Gong who knows what is out there in the big bad world outside Woolongong doin' laps at Ballarat might be totally different to doin laps in the 'Gong the sheila's might not unnersand the cool 'Gong slang like G'day !! I will see them round like a rissole ... eh eh! lolz Funny thing was years ago we took a vintage replica that all he guys were too scared to sail so we ended up with brave wives. Lowlights being deaffened at a disco feeling grandpar ish... highlights sound & light show at the hill & the ongoing seeing the room i stayed at being used on Dr Blakes. Does anyone do "ghosts of Franklin past tours"? |
|
it was fitted back in '71 they never had stamps back then different thing if fitted today just sayin' 
The reality would be how the load is taken on the Mustang chassis, as i guess the actual tow bar assembly is a relatively known factor, for the weight you are designing it to. My fussy NSW blue slip guy texted he always looks for a brand name on a bar, or on older ones, that it looks secure no signs of bending/ stress cracks in paint and rust free, especially where attatched, when up on the hoist. 
as in '71 the cars were fitted with the old style bars not hitches so depends on which way you want to go , a home made bar with a hitch receiver would not be my option of choice 
without an engineer's certification which would be 4-500 dollars I would think on top of the bar cost 
mine on the Z is the same home made , well shop made back in '61 just recently sand blasted and painted with a new tongue 
the sheila's might not unnersand the cool 'Gong slang like G'day !!