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Post by keelz on Dec 12, 2008 19:44:19 GMT 10
Yep aint wrong there Al some times it is hard to stay motivated particularly with a nice sunny morning or the late arvo sunsets......gotta have something good to look at when the van's parked in the front yard and ain't going anywhere in a hurry. Yeah i was reading your other thread on things to look for when buying a classic van. I concur - this chassis problem is one of the more complicated problems to tackle and almost put me off purchasing the van in the first place, however i took the plunge.... We should compose a checklist of stupid things that take stupid amounts of time and elbow grease to fix! ;D Been scrounging around again today, have rustled up some galv. angles, got to wait for this wet weather to clear then i can get underway again over the weekend. cheers Keelz
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Post by keelz on Dec 14, 2008 20:13:55 GMT 10
Well attacked it on two fronts this weekend kept progressing the chassis repair another step, the fibreglass reinforced filler in ready to be shaped off later on. Whist waiting for that stuff to go rock hard (in 5 minutes)....decided i would jump back onto an easier job for a little bit less head bangin. I have been tinkering on with the three way fridge for a couple of weeks and it's venting system. Currently the existing louvres in the van wall and removable panel have just not been allowing enough airflow, it comes down to cross sectional area/open airflow and these things were just not cutting it to allow the fridge to breath adequately. The top vent was also badly configured from the time the van was built, sealed off with flymesh full of dust, etc. On a hot day the fridge has been suffering as a result and performance hampered. After having the fridge re-built earlier this year i have fitted 12 volt fans on the back of the fridge that are switched via a thermostat on the coils as the weather warms up and the fridge cranks up the heat to keep up, they automatically kick in, or I can manually overide. Next had to improve the venting to create a better draught behind the fridge. In with the new Dometic vents. I always hate having to cut more holes in the van walls and this was a tricky location to make watertight but I think the end result and improved fridge performance will be worth it. Pic with the upper vent now in, I couldn't decide on using the 4 inch grinder, the jigsaw or my recipro saw for this job. I ended up running with the 4inch with a fine/narrow aluminium cutting blade. Worked a charm with 4 rounded holes in each corner done by the drill bit. This allowed me to cut the outside face first without trying to have a large blade punching in and out of the wall cavity and hitting inside panelling with the other two options........ This vent is taller above the top of the fridge and required modification of the venting setup internally so i can install a metal heat shield under the existing plastic splay duct. So i started knocking it up test fit and view of the vent internally, much bigger opening than the old setup. The original setup had a small rectangular cut-out in the timber panelling, to allow the hot air to vent up the wall cavity and out the louvres. Problem was the hot air was getting trapped inside the wall cavity and just wasn't escaping.... This new top vent also has allowed me to fabricate a new flue extension to the top of the gas flue exhaust pipe, now fully ducted externally via the vent kit and t-piece section. Less heat in the cabinet area, more heat going outside ;D another test fit - with the old plastic duct on top. side view - much higher now due to increased wall opening height. running much cooler now with a test run for a cpl of hours with things sitting loosely in position after a couple of simulated sundown 'beer runs' - door opens door shuts.... is now pulling better temps, have also put the fridgemate battery fan inside for a test run - it seems to help the cabinet temperature pull back down to temp a lot faster by helping with a bit of air movement, so that little fan is coming on our next trip the fridgemate running internally Finally i am starting to get some nice frosty fins with it cranking a few deg's cooler just wait till i get this thing loaded up lotsa cold stuff sealed the plywood frame up later this evening. now just got to paint the new box, install a sheet aluminium deflector and a few screws and angles to finish off the top vent inside the van. The matching lower external vent is next on the to-do list and tidy up the work already done on the baffles behind the unit. Keelz
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 7:19:26 GMT 10
Ok That fridge work is simply fantastic. Hallstorm cycle fridges always struggle in the heat and need all the help you can give them. Many clever tips and great ingenuity. Have you a shot of the fan setup and circuit diagram etc please? PS It mite be worth a copy and paste of the 'fridge bits' into a new thread to make it easier to find for others later?
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Post by millard1399 on Dec 15, 2008 7:56:34 GMT 10
Keelz, some very complex work you've got yourself involved with there! Looks like it's coming along just fine ;D I agree with Wahroonga, some of this airflow redesign you've created would be useful in a separate thread in the Technical section. I'm interested in seeing some more photos showing how you've connected from the gas flue to the new Dometic vent. Is the plastic vent somewhat heatproof? You've obviously been a very busy boy of late! cheers, Al.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 9:53:06 GMT 10
Gday Keelz Thanks to you and the others for the tips and info , sitting on my bum with leg in the air it has been great reading. Your van looks great and I can only hope that the little ambassador scrubs up half as good. Once again well done Bazz
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Post by keelz on Dec 15, 2008 10:02:26 GMT 10
hey guys - well i've been doing a lot of reading. I was getting really frustrated on a couple of hot days while on last holiday.....that spurred me into doing some research. Get onto Google and start looking up three way fridges, venting, 12volt fans, etc. There is hundreds of pages of information useful for assisting. Here are some starter references for the venting requirements. www.caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/articles/fridges_two.htmwww.fridge-and-solar.net/fridge_vent.htmThe original vent design of the Viscount setup was a good attempt, but after doing some reading i came to the conclusion that it was less than satisfactory to get the best results out of the fridge. I also came across a website with all the Dometic manuals for all the fridge models, very handy if you have bought an old classic without any manuals....Yee haa ;D www.dometicmanuals.com:8080/dometic/masterdometic.nsf?OpendatabaseAt present i have two 12volt fans located on the back. I'm experimenting with the use of 1 and 2 fans individual and combined, with slightly different fan capacities. When i have the baffles off next ill take a pic. The thermostat is a 12volt normally open thermostat switch. When the middle coils on rear of fridge heat up over about 70 deg the fans come on automatically. I have a bypass wire fitted to the switch on top of the fridge near the vent that allows me to override and switch the fans on earlier if we are expecting a stinkin' hot day. The fans at the back have resulted in reducing the fridge temp on average by about 3-4 degrees on an normal day. It is amazing how much just a bit of airflow up behind the fridge helps. I used to hold my hand near the old ally wall vents and didn't feel much air movement (even with the fan fitted). Now i hold my hand in front of the top vent and can feel a steady flow of warm air I am now hoping that with the installation of the bottom louvre, there should be a slight bit more improvement, fingers crossed. More work for later on..... Wahroonga I will try and sketch up a 12v circuit diagram and upload soon. Al, the vent kit came from caravansplus with the couple of extension pieces as shown on their site. Due to the height of my fridge, the black extension pieces were too short and their diameter was too small for the existing flue discharge diameter on the fridge. I have used the top aluminium piece and the metal t-section that came with the kit. The fridge used to have an aluminium flue with a small vent hole in the top. I removed this and scrounged around the garage. I found a length of old Electrolux (keh ) vacuum cleaner aluminium hose pipe in matching diameter and wall thickness! I chopped a section down and have very crudely connected it together for now. And the one who must be obeyed often is heard saying "what are you keeping that junk for?" The heat that comes out the top plastic vent dissipates pretty well, the passing breeze external helps remove the exhaust gases quickly. The plastic is the same stuff that the gas hot water heater louvre is made out of, it seems to cope ok. The only downside is that after test running the gas i reckon that i got a couple of flame-outs.....but yesterday was very windy here so i'll re-assess that later on and make changes if necessary to the flue exhaust. I agree guys i i'll try and remember to start a thread in technical for the 'fridge bits' info and we can share any tips on this particular subject so we can all have cooler beers ;D. Keelz
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 6:48:11 GMT 10
Thanks again, Reading those ventilation notes, I must check my baffles
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Post by keelz on Dec 22, 2008 19:53:43 GMT 10
ok time for a status update..... the chassis repairs at boggin' stage that fibre reinforced bog sets like concrete when u use a fair bit of hardener ;D time to sand and profile back to shape - strip it sanding discs and trusty 4inch grinder again! Sealed it all up with primer later on...will post more photos later in that area when i attack the next stage in that saga.... then while paint drying....back to Fridge..... again. the fan arrangement ( plywood lining panels removed for photo) New matching lower vent. Then back inside the van. Fabricating new heat deflector out of sheety ally to fit the new upper vent box/enclosure. all screwed in test fit with plastic cover back on top for aesthetics and it has foam gasket strips installed all over it to seal out air and insect movement into van. Today was relatively cool outside, a warm 32 deg inside the closed up van, Fridge now pulling down to approx minus -1.7 deg, i feel the new bottom louvre is allowing better air movement behind the fridge combined with a single fan running. The smaller 24v fan is permanently connected to the 12 v from the tow vehicle and will run when travelling on 12volts, a gentle very small breeze effect. The larger fan is connected to 12 transformer and thermostat switch and moves larger air quantity when sitting idle on those hot days. The movement of hot air out the top vent is much more noticeable now since the installation of the new vent kit, i could never feel much air movement coming out of the old louvres due to the bad flow path inside the cavity wall. Keelz
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Post by mike on Dec 24, 2008 16:32:18 GMT 10
Keelz, What a brilliantly simple solution: a small fan to increase hot air flow!! ;D I'll be looking into it for ours. I may have trouble with the top deflector but I'll adapt the idea somehow. We have the sink over the fridge. Those fans of the flat type look like those typically used to cool computer processors. They are quiet and measure about 50x50x8 mm each. And... there are a few old computers I see being thrown out at 'clean up' times. All the old pre-pentiums, pentium 1 etc. They usually have their hard-drive removed, but the rest is usually complete including fans?? Keelz your work is an inspiration! Look forward to the next chapter. I'll be getting into this fridge improvement ..... soon??? Sometime after the festive season though!!! Cheers Mike ;D ;D ;D
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Post by keelz on Dec 24, 2008 19:03:38 GMT 10
Gday Mike, the fans you need are the ones out of the old computer power supplies. Find some old computers and strip the fans out of the power supplies. Usually they have 2-3 wires, just go for the red and black. I've found that one fan is satisfactory. I've got two because one is wired full time to the tow vehicle 12v feed to the 12v element on the fridge and the second fan is just wired to a plug pack transformer that i've got in the cupboard under the sink.
Use a bit of 25 x 25 aluminium angle, notch out a section for the fan's airflow path, drill a few screw holes and there you go! ;D
The small fans from the motherboard chips might be a bit small to get the required air movement. I reckon they would be ideal however to use inside the fridge cabinet to circulate cool air. Some of those smaller fans might run off 3v? or so.
I've seen some guys who also use a power supply fan inside the fridge cabinet and just run it off the same 12v circuit by sneaking some wires into the cabinet through the holes that the thermostat wires feed through into the cabinet.
cheers
Keelz
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Post by atouchofglass on Dec 28, 2008 7:40:24 GMT 10
Looking good mate Just had a look at earlier posts on this thread and saw something not noticed before.... In post 5 on page one The handles and towel rail are integrated into one How cool is that If I had seen that before, might have tried getting some knocked up in stainless .... Hmmmm still not out of the question The fridge vent idea is also a winner Just goes to show what can be achieved with a bit of lateral thinking Keep up the great posts Cheers Atog
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Post by keelz on Jan 3, 2009 15:26:16 GMT 10
Thanks Atog, yeah mate we simply love those stainless steel rails on the back, they are fantastic for drying off the towels or swimmers after a visit to the beach or amenities, particularly in this summer weather. Anyhow i'm back after a couple of nights away to the hunter valley in the van and roasting ourselves in the heatwave and dipping ourselves in the pool for relief we decided to head back home some photos of the stuff i have been up to prior to going away.... the chassis repairs on the near side (rear) ongoing.... the new gal. angles welded in place. Man was this bit hard going As I couldn't get a proprietary section of angle that was the correct dimensions i required, i ended up having to rip down a larger equal angle to suit the required L shape dimensions i required. After a lot of fiddling, measuring, cutting, grinding and test fitting i have fitted two sections of angle in between the primary steel outriggers. Welding stuff vertically with limited positions to place yourself under the van without donging your head with welding mask on Not looking forward to doing the other side The patching and repair of the floor also in progress with fibre reinforced bog..... All primed up Steel top coated and floor painted with bitumous waterproofing to avoid future water damage Whilst i've had the wheels off been starting to caulk up all nooks 'n' crannies around the plastic wheelarch liner, sealing up any cracks and then waterproofing over the hole lot..... its amazing how much time these jobs can chew up! cheers Keelz
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Post by millard1399 on Jan 3, 2009 22:11:32 GMT 10
So lemme get this straight...you do a bit of work on the van, and then you go away in the van for a break, and then you do a bit more on the van, and then you go away again, etc, etc. Have I got that right?? Well, that's CHEATING!! That's NOT FAIR!! You are supposed to suffer endlessly during a restoration, NOT reward yourself with a little holiday every now and then!!! But, I have to admit, with the fine work you've done on that chassis, you deserve a bit of 5-star treatment! ;D ;D Ah yes, the joys of welding as you described...not to mention the joys of painting as you described...as well as the joys of crawling in and out from under a van seventeen times a day... By the way, maybe a couple of those little fridge fans could be a goer when tucked down your shirt on hot days, eh?? cheers, Al.
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Post by keelz on Jan 4, 2009 8:03:31 GMT 10
After the heat over the last few days, a few of those fans strapped onto a hat with a 12v battery on the belt sounds like a grand idea SHOOOSH don't tell anyone, we can patent it and flog it! Not wrong about the nongin' the head factor. Jobs like these you wish you had the contents of your workshop sitting directly adjacent to the van. Backwards and forwards, up and down.....BANG head..... Swear, curse and walk around front yard in a daze holding head while the sweat starts stinging the cuts The locals walk past with dog in tow say "you still working on that van?!" WELL DER it's only 30 years old! ok off my soapbox... Keelz
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Post by keelz on Mar 14, 2009 19:31:20 GMT 10
ok as discussed under my Four seasons hatch thread, here are some progress pics. The new hatches arrived earlier this week. Spent a night earlier this week un-doing the winder mechanism pop rivets and the rivets holding the corner stakes to the lid. Then tidied up the missing silicon work required (as they leave the factory, pretty pathetic still having rivets exposed to the weather..... ). I got up the courage today to get hatch #1 installed. I had removed the old hatch last weekend. Today involved cleaning up the roof to remove old rivets and all the old dried out butyl mastic stuff and various band-aid solutions stuck to the roof prior to me installing. I see the light Start removing the crud and more crud.. it had oozed out when they installed the hatch originally and they had stuck the 50mm ceiling trim in whilst it was wet, effectively making it impossible to remove the ceiling trim until i had the hatch removed and could break the trims loose from the bond of CRRUUUUUUUUD New hatch base separated from lid and flaps earlier this week - ready to rock n roll The the wire brushing and strip it disc do wonders to remove the final residues of stuff of the roof surface back to a clean sealant friendly surface, should key in nicely onto this.... New hatch base sitting in position Stuck down, squeezed out, masking tape just removed off the roof These areas concerned me most, where the interlocked roof seams terminate at the penetration and typically where water used to pond beside the hatch during wet weater new lid ready to go on after silicon and rivetting the new lid onto the new base from inside the van and inserting the four flaps back on ;D The view from inside once flap winder mechanisms rivetted back on, flyscreens reinstalled... Phhheeew. Rains coming. On with the tarp and cover while everything cures for a few days. Don't want to risk anything. Back to the garage to start cleaning up the fascia trims. Tossing up whether to just clean these up and re-use them or put in two nice new white PVC trims...mmmm errr.. Can't decide, i'll clean em up anyhow. oh yeah those Butyl mastic and Secomastic putties "stay forever flexible" ........Maybe not in Oz up on the roof of a van where you can cook Bacon and Eggs most summertimes for brekky. Ok so thats what i've been up to of recent. Hatch #2 - i know where you live and will be coming around to detach you shortly cheers Keelz
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2009 7:34:44 GMT 10
wow Keelz looks really good well done just wondering what went wrong with your old hatch ? I got hatch issues also was going to just replace flaps but after reading this I am torn .I may just replace whole hatch?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2009 8:22:20 GMT 10
Nice work as usual. I'm amazed how thin the roof cavity is on the Viscount?
My Yorks (aluminium frame) has a roof cavity around 85cm.
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Post by keelz on Mar 15, 2009 10:01:21 GMT 10
wow Keelz looks really good well done just wondering what went wrong with your old hatch ? I got hatch issues also was going to just replace flaps but after reading this I am torn .I may just replace whole hatch? Gday Gary, um it was kinda due to two issues. 1.) these hatches tend to leak at the four corners where the plastic corner supports were glued together and rivetted years ago when made in the factory. (aside from leaks between the flange roof trim and the van roof surface)... They didn't have silicon back then, they used a grey kinda glue which went brittle and allows water to track in behind the plastic corners and leak through the mitre joints of the four sides of the base frame. The hatch was bedded onto old butyl mastics and pop rivetting to the roof skin, this was also allowing slow moisture ingress. You can band-aid with silicons, etc over the top but they tend to leak. The only way to get waterproof is to get the sealant between the plastic and the aluminium, squeeze it all together until excess sealant ooozes out and then rivet all the four sides back together and then tidy it all up. I started cleaning all the bits and pieces up in the workshop and realised it was going to take a lot of time to re-assemble using a jig to help hold it all together while rivetting and siliconing all back together. The new hatches come with the plastic corner stakes silicon sealed to the base frames ready to go (except for requiring some sealant externally over the rivet heads etc when you install. 2.) If i was going to go to all this effort, i don't exactly want to be doing it again in the near future unless something drastic happens to the hatches eg damage by trees, etc. The lid sections also tend to leak at the four corners (when you pull them off and have a closer look at the mitred corners. The lid section also needs to be re-sealed into the perimeter trim to prevent leaks (which i had previously done, removing all old silicons, etc).. Again the new ones come sealed with decent silicons at all four corners when assembled at the factory. I weighed up the effort involved and decided it was the best solution to get two new hatches with all new flaps, flyscreens, etc and put them on. I'll probably tidy up the old ones, re-seal them and keep them as spares or re-sell them. When you add up the cost of purchasing individual flaps, flyscreens, winder mechanism plastic supports, etc it all starts stacking up quickly, might as well replace the whole lot sometimes. The time to re-build the old hatches and do it properly is a lot of time spent in the workshop with silicon fingers - something i can save for a rainy weekend in the future! This involves stripping out all rivets, cleaning all the old adhesives and mastic off the plastic, the aluminium parts etc by scraping and wirebrushing, etc. Many many hours of work. Good luck with your hatch repairs! Cheers Keelz
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Post by keelz on Mar 15, 2009 10:06:28 GMT 10
Nice work as usual. I'm amazed how thin the roof cavity is on the Viscount? My Yorks (aluminium frame) has a roof cavity around 85cm. Thanks Wahroonga, it's been hard yakka so yeah I am looking forward to standing inside the van during the water test with a cold beverage in my hand . Yeah the cavity is approx 50+mm on these vans. cheers Keelz
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Post by millard1399 on Mar 16, 2009 19:51:27 GMT 10
Hi Keelz, some fine work you're doing there, son! That dreaded cream coloured mastic you've got there looks VERY similar to the cream crap I've got on the Millard. Real b*gger of a stuff to clean back, so I can well understand how many hours you've spent cleaning it all up. The new hatch really looks the goods, but be careful you don't go lettin' that brain of yours talk you into putting a new ROOF on to match the new hatches, ha ha.
cheers, Al
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Post by viscount6116 on Oct 10, 2010 15:49:36 GMT 10
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Post by NP61 on Oct 28, 2010 16:56:56 GMT 10
Wouldn't be able to tell a gal where you got the Supreme deluxe decals?
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Post by viscount6116 on Oct 31, 2010 12:44:36 GMT 10
No I'm sorry but I cant help you as the decals are the originals Cheers Andy
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Post by mark on Nov 17, 2012 20:04:11 GMT 10
HI great van, I have the same model but in single axle version. I am wondering where you got the stickers for the new rear window cover
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