Bessie - 197? Viscount

[vanmad]

Hi guys,

We joined a couple of years ago when we bought the above, but we’re only really just getting around to doing anything to the van. Here’s some photos in un renovated glory:



























I’m actually taking the van down to a company called “your palace caravan restorations” here on the central coast today to talk about a renovation in stages, starting with the chassis, drawbar and cladding, resealing j-rails and windows, respray. Can anyone help with:

1. Age of the old girl (chassis no is confusing)

2. Model?

3. what the original decals were (they appear to be beneath the very bad overspray and i think they are this shape from Millard’s fantastic museum post:



I think they were a baby blue colour.

Also decals front and back if any

4. Closest colours for the respray and recreation of the decals. The wife is keen on a silver colour, which is not original but I agree would look pretty good. Have thought of bare ally with a lacquer, but that would probably be a lot of work! Was the original just gloss white?

Thanks guys!!

[Husky]

Hey Vanmad,

Welcome back to the forum

Looking at the draw bar and interior, it's possibly a Viscount Royal 1974 model but more knowledgeable people here will confirm that. Is there a letter like R or a S beneath the safety chain?

Looks like an awesome little project. Most of it looks like it just needs a good clean unless you have modifications in mind. Any particular reason for outsourcing the rebuild?

Looking forward to future posts and pictures don't be scared to ask questions either if you do decide to take on some of the work yourself.

Have fun

[snoops]

Early 70's Viscount - maybe a Valiant? Nice looking van. I think the window design changed around 74 or 75 to the newer style, so Huskys guess will be close. It is very similar is design internally and externally to my 71 Viscount Duralvan, although mine has the wrap around front and rear windows, but decor and paneling inside is almost identical to mine.

There are other members here who are walking encyclopedias on old vans so someone should be along to narrow it down a bit more for you.

The interior looks to be in very good original condition and looks like it needs little work.  As you mentioned, a mechanical overhaul, reseal of the J molds and windows and a coat of paint and she'll look like new again.   Some of this you may be able to do yourself if you have some basic tools - there is a lot of info here on re sealing the J molds and windows for example - all you need is the wil power, time and elbow grease really to do this.

[vanmad]

Hi Husky, thanks for this. No S that I can see. She’s registered as a 1979, but I also think she’s a fair bit earlier as you’ve indicated.

On the out sourcing: essentially I’m time poor and haven’t managed to do any of the things I wanted to, and she’s sitting getting more and more dilapidated while she waits! I did have a go at pulling the hatch apart and ended up re-framing with hardwood decking board, pulling the old rotten particle board frame out, deck screwed to the ally frame Re-lined the underneath of the hatch with marine ply. Recently added some catches to take the pressure off the winder when going along. I wasn’t entirely satisfied with the results and it took me ages! Maybe I’m not as handy as I thought! I’m not convinced I managed to get the flashing back on correctly either and ended up basically using mastic flashing tape to keep it all in place. It might need a re-visit at some point, but for now it’s functional and touch wood doesn’t leak like it used to. Maybe I started with the wrong project!

For now I’m leaving the interior as is and concentrating on the windows, j-rail and chassis, (getting her watertight and safe) and re spray. Unfortunately I can’t get her undercover whlist windows etc. are pulled out, and I’m worried I will probably take longer than expected. I also have no gear for re-spray etc.

[captivenut]

It's not a Royal or a Valiant. I'm going with 69 -71 model Ambassador. I believe that style of door was discontinued around 1971. That chassis number doesn't look factory to me. I'm wondering if it was originally 484E or 4841E? Check under the table and/or in the cupboards, under drawers, etc, for pencilled date - that was a common factory practice. I'm wondering if the benches & splashback laminates have been replaced? Nice van!

Cheers, Arthur

[vanmad]

Cheers Arthur, How intriguing! Found the following marks:







So original chassis no was 355? She is an ambassador? and rebuilt in ‘97 (or at least some cabinets replaced / rebuilt)? Very interesting. I wonder if she had a later draw bar added / replaced?

[vanmad]

Yep.. the splashbacks and benches have defo been replaced btw - we have exactly the same colour and spec on our kitchen cupboards which I think were “updated” at a similar time (‘97 say). I think the carpets and vynil was done then too, possibly the cushions and curtains too. Some of the laminate is not an exact match to the older stuff, but pretty close.

[captivenut]

Good find! That confirms it's an Ambassador. The number on the drawbar is a furphy. The number you found may be part of the original chassis number? Did you check under the table? I'm guessing it's possibly 355E? That would make it 1970.

[vanmad]

Hey captivenut,

Unfortunately the table was replaced at the same time as the kitchen units by the looks as it’s the same laminate material. So no numbers there sadly. I think I’ve managed to crawl into every crevice and the only places I’ve managed to find any markings are the drivers side front cabinet and the off side diner seat cupboard (that’s the pencil 355). I’m confident that these parts are original as it’s the older greyish laminate with no real “grain” pattern (same as ceiling). Hmm. Where to go from here?

This post is pretty much the identical van:

ditzygypsy.proboards.com/thread/1888/1969-viscount-ambassador-e9186?page=1

I don’t think the dude is on here any more is he?

[vanmad]

Hey guys,

I’ve been trying to figure out the painted over decal beneath the front window. I think it’s this one based on shape, exposed silver bits etc.:



Does this shed any more light or shade on year?

[captivenut]

That looks like a 60's style Ambassador Alumvan sticker - which signifies an aluminiumframe. The faux pearl cupboard handles date from around 68 - 71. Did you check under the cutlery drawer and other drawers? Also use a mirror & torch to check the blind spots inside cupboards etc.

[vanmad]

I did yes, unfortunately the kitchen units were remade in 97 (pretty well remade it has to be said) and look to have retained all orig. fittings. That’s the remade marker pen inscription under the cutlery drawer. The laminiate is very slightly different on the unit vertical surfaces (not the drawer and cupboard fronts) and the bench has been raised and is now flush with the sink (I think you can see the original height on the inside) and now extends very slightly over the bed, bench tops replaced.

Can I ask, was an East West double bed at the rear common, or would this have been changed from a North South twin with cupboards in between when the kitchen was re done??

[twocutekelpies]

Oct 5, 2018 18:39:04 GMT 10 vanmad said:

Can I ask, was an East West double bed at the rear common, or would this have been changed from a North South twin with cupboards in between when the kitchen was re done??

I'm sure I've seen east west double beds in other 'vans of similar age but it's hard to say if original or not, I'm sure you'd see evidence of the centre cupboard if one had been there, unless the back panel was replaced.


I hope you post after photos, I've seen some of Marc and Liz's (Your Palace Restorations) renovations on facebook and instagram, they do nice work.

Shelley

[vanmad]

.. just found another marking on the framework of one of the original drawer slides. Can’t quite make out the end bit, but what I can read says “VAL 355”. The mystery continues! Perhaps she started out as one and was finished as another? It appears to be the same crayon and same writing as the “355 AMB” in the top cupboard.

[twocutekelpies]

I haven't worked out what the VAL means yet, it's been found in a few Viscounts from around then, Duralvans and Ambassadors both, maybe the builder's name assigned to that caravan? I know a few men's names have been found on the interior lining of a lot of vintage and classic caravans, my '72 York had George V written on one of the panels.

[vanmad]

Oct 6, 2018 11:26:17 GMT 10 twocutekelpies said:

I haven't worked out what the VAL means yet, it's been found in a few Viscounts from around then, Duralvans and Ambassadors both, maybe the builder's name assigned to that caravan? I know a few men's names have been found on the interior lining of a lot of vintage and classic caravans, my '72 York had George V written on one of the panels.

Oh right.. I’d assumed it meant Valiant! Perhaps the Amb doesn’t mean ambassador either then?

[twocutekelpies]

My '73 Ambassador has AMB 4745 in the kitchen overhead cupboard, 4745 is part of my chassis number, the start is R3 even though she's an Ambassador, she has a Royal chassis number. I would love to get my hands on their books, so far I've collated over 750 chassis numbers from forums and owners and I still have
questions

[captivenut]

Oct 6, 2018 13:20:27 GMT 10 twocutekelpies said:

….I would love to get my hands on their books....

As I have mentioned several times on other pages, there is substantial evidence that substance abuse on the Viscount production line may have been a problem? The books may not admit to this? So, I'm going with 1970 for this one. What's your (more) informed view?

[twocutekelpies]

Lol Arthur and I agree with 1970

[vanmad]

Thanks guys!