|
Post by hotrodtoys on Feb 5, 2011 10:41:18 GMT 10
Strange question, if I am going to rewire a caravan, what is best a 15 amp input or a 10 amp It may or may not be running a fridge but will be running a 15 inch TV DVD and lights What do most caravan parks have as a outlet for power? Who do you get to wire it - a auto electrician or a normal electrician Paul
|
|
|
Post by kiwijim on Feb 5, 2011 13:33:29 GMT 10
Howdy Hotrodtoys, To answer your question, All caravan inlets must have a 15 amp connection, I don't think it is mandatory to have a circuit breaker fitted but, I would strongly advise to fit one while doing the re-wire. There is nothing to stop you doing your own re-wiring as long as all connections are visible for an electrician to examine for a wiring certificate to be issued. Any normal general electrician should be able to do the work for you.... AT A PRICE cheers kiwijim
|
|
|
Post by mike on Feb 5, 2011 15:10:07 GMT 10
Greetings Hotrodtoys, ;D You don't mention any 12v wiring... You can do that yourself, but make sure that you don't use ANY 240V plugs or switches for that hook-up. You MUST get 12v plugs, switches, wiring, lights etc from your local auto parts shop. Keep this 12v system that you design separate from the deadly 240v wiring set-up. You do not need an auto electrician to verify your 12v system, but it may be wise if you're a bit confused: you wouldn't want to have any equipment burn out Cheers ;D ;D ;D mike
|
|
|
Post by hotrodtoys on Feb 6, 2011 10:30:45 GMT 10
Thanks Kiwi, I have a lecky that works for Beer rates for 240 stuff, I wire it and he checks it ;D Was gunna run circut breaker just for safety anyway Thank you also Mike will do this only on 1 Light cause only going to use it on hot rod runs mainly 8-)so don't need 12v for much else Nothing worse than the smell of burning wiring Burning rubber always smells good tho
|
|
|
Post by millard1399 on Feb 6, 2011 15:00:24 GMT 10
G'day hotrodtoys, The internet caravan parts suppliers have some very good information about electrical installations in RVs. If you click on this link to Caravans Plus, you can read all about the latest "plug-in stuff" for Do-It-Yourselfers, as well as the traditional wiring set-up. Generally, most caravan parks will have the 15A outlets, but the latest Australian Standards do allow for 10A connections, so things might change in the coming years. cheers, Al.
|
|
|
Post by youngdazza on Feb 24, 2011 16:37:46 GMT 10
To connect your van to a regular household (10A) socket you need something like this: www.ampfibian.com.au/productsRV01.htmIts the only legal (and safe) way of doing this. If you wire up your own lead then theres a chance that you'll exceed 10A and melt down your wall socket (or worse).
|
|
|
Post by kiwijim on Feb 24, 2011 18:15:57 GMT 10
Howdy youngdazza, Thats a mighty interesting power adapter that you have a link to, You say it's the only legal adapter around, I am just wondering, how you know it's legal, I have checked the web site of the producer but, there is no mention of a appliance approval Number listed. Here in the West, it has recently been made illegal for any power lead to be joined at any point between the power supply sauce and the appliance, In other words, the power lead must be of one piece construction from start to finish. It is also highly illegal to fit a 10amp plug at one end of a lead and a 15amp socket at the other. kiwijim
|
|
|
Post by millard1399 on Feb 24, 2011 19:41:34 GMT 10
G'day kiwijim, Now you've got my attention. Does that mean that normal household extension cords are illegal in the west? All those power tools with a 1.8 metre cord can't be used with an extension lead? Or am I misunderstanding something? [Hmmm, could be some bargain tools being shipped back from WA to NSW. ;D ] -------------------------------------------------- There's quite a lengthy discussion about the Amp-fibian unit, and 10A/15A issues, on the Caravanersforum. Up to 21 pages long...and growing. Happy reading! cheers, Al.
|
|
|
Post by youngdazza on Feb 24, 2011 20:53:11 GMT 10
Im no authority on this, but thats how I interpreted this blurb from www.caravansplus.com.au/detail-pages/electrical.htmTo me it makes a lot of sense - a safer way to plug a 15A appliance into a 10A plug is to put a 10A circuit breaker inline. I rekkon every second caravanner has a dodgey 10A lead in the shed, that they use when the in-laws need to stay but theres sadly no room left in the house. A safer solution would be great. I jumped to the conclusion that this adapter was legal, as it was an aussie company marketing it for that purpose. Of course I could be very wrong. Has someone read thru the 21 pages to figure out whats what?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 21:16:36 GMT 10
I got through about the first three pages of the link before the eyes started ALL the "home made" ways of connecting a 15 amp plug into a 10 amp socket are illegal and may have serious implications, for example on any insurance claim arising out of a fire ... Haven't researched the amphi plug thingy yet but if its designed and APPROVED for the purpose then it would likely be fair to say the base is covered. On the face of it, it is but I didn't notice an Australian Standard number anywhere ... My thoughts are that it would be relatively simple to rig up a safe and COMPLIANT device using existing readily available electrical equipment for achieving the same thing at a reduced cost BUT it may need to be constructed and certified by a licensed electrician (this might also vary according to which state you are in) - this is very likely to negate any savings made unless you are or know a licensed electrician (in which case you probably aren't even reading this thread ). SO, my thoughts would be to stump up for the cash for the approved (if indeed it is) device even though it seems expensive because it won't void your insurance due to not being legal .... we (should) cough up money every year to insure our vans / homes it would be a shame to waste it trying to save a couple of dollars. My 2 bobs worth. Cheers, Doug.
|
|
|
Post by kiwijim on Feb 24, 2011 21:26:56 GMT 10
G'day again youngdazza, The law I refer to regarding a joined power lead is referring to power leads connecting to caravans only. The danger in a joined lead is obviously that water entering the connected plugs is dangerous and also a resistance at this point can cause a fire. Sorry no cheap power tools for you guys in the East. ;D ;D With-out reading through 20 odd pages of remarks regarding this new adapter for 10amp - 15 amp leads, I would be very interested in getting hold of one, that is if some-one could say....." Yes"..... here's the approval Number and heres the certification notice issued by the power authorities. cheers kiwijim
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 21:48:41 GMT 10
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2011 8:40:02 GMT 10
I have received a reply from Ampfibian, here it is below: Hi Doug, Yes the units meet the relevant standards being AS/NZS3190 portable rcd's for RV-02 and AS/NZS3122 for RV-01. We have distributers all over the country, if you let me know in what area you are I could direct you to them. Cheers. Regards, David Betterridge AMPFIBIAN ph: 0408367553 info@ampfibian.com.au www.ampfibian.com.au
|
|
|
Post by kiwijim on Feb 28, 2011 9:46:29 GMT 10
Howdy crusindoug, I think the answer you received, doesn't actually answer the question.... Have these items been approved,? and, what is the approval number ? They may well meet the required standards, but there could still be an insurance problem, if they don't carry that certified number. kiwijim
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2011 10:53:20 GMT 10
Hi KiwiJim I'm on to my 3rd Govt body trying to ascertain independantly of the manufacturer's claims if it is in fact legal to use this product! I feel comfortable that the product is safe in knowing that it meets Aust Standards, and it is designed for the purpose, so it would be a fair bet to say there would be no issues. HOWEVER, I agree that insurance companies tend to interpret rules in their favour as they go and so I am going to try the third lot and then maybe just my insurance companies directly! Who knew such a simple question as "is it legal"? could be so difficult.. I have also asked about either a bulk purchase deal or discount for forum members ... Cheers, Doug.
|
|
|
Post by kiwijim on Feb 28, 2011 13:28:13 GMT 10
Howdy Doug, I can well understand trying to get an answer out of any Govt body.......Best of luck. It will be interesting to hear the cost of these units and weather they do offer any discount for a bulk purchase, Good on you for trying. I was thinking of trying to contact the Electric commission here in Perth with a few questions my-self. I think their answer would be ( if I got one ) just bring the item in and we will have a look at it, then the waiting would start. It will be very interesting to hear any feed-back. if you have any luck. cheers kiwijim
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 19:13:44 GMT 10
Hi all just an update on the Ampfibian: No word yet from the last of the govt bodies I contacted I have heard back from Ampphibian regarding pricing, they have put me on to my local suppliers, so I have sent them an email ... I have also enquired to the insurance companies but as yet no answer ... Sooo Waiting Waiting ,,,
|
|
|
Post by millard1399 on Mar 4, 2011 21:00:08 GMT 10
I wonder why the Amp*fibian people can't simply give the Electrical Approval Number for the item?
The way I read the Electrical Approval system, this item fits in the "Declared Articles" category, and therefore needs approval from one of the State bodies/Independent bodies. The item itself is also supposed to carry an Approval mark. Being made to an Australian Standard is not the same as having the appropriate Electrical Approval, from what I read.
Approval from one State/Independent body is sufficient for the item to be sold in other states and NZ.
The home address for this item is in NT, so you would think they'd go to the NT approval people (but not necessarily so).
The blurb on the NSW Fair Trading website says:
"Australian regulators of electrical appliances and equipment have determined that the risk to consumers from certain classes of electrical articles is such that they must be approved by the Commissioner for Fair Trading, or by an authorised external approval scheme, and carry the appropriate approval mark and comply with the relevant Australian Standard prior to sale in Australia. Such electrical articles are known as ‘declared’ articles.
Other electrical appliances and equipment, known as ‘non-declared articles’, must comply with the minimum safety requirements contained in Australian Standard AS/NZS 3820:1998."
The list of 'Declared Articles' includes the following items as well as some others:
Appliance Connector Bayonet Lampholder Bayonet Lampholder Adaptor Control or Conditioning Device Cord Extension Socket appliances Cord-Line Switch Decorative Lighting Outfit Edison Screw Lampholder Fluorescent Lamp Ballast Fluorescent Lamp Starter Inspection Handlamp Luminaire (whether or not portable) Outlet Devices Plugs Socket-Outlet Supply Flexible Cord Wall Switch
----------------------------------------------------
I see on one of the internet caravan parts suppliers, they have listed the Electrical Approval number for the Powerclip double power sockets against the item. In this case the Approval was granted in Qld, so the number starts with a Q. Seems a good way to keep consumers informed about the products they're selling.
cheers, Al.
|
|
|
Post by drylander on Mar 4, 2011 23:54:11 GMT 10
Al just to let you know your suggestion of 15A to 10A lead is actually illegal for a lecky to make. Its a good idea as I have that cord as well but you make it yourself for those reasons. A safer (?) option would be to have a 10A external inlet and couple to the 240 wiring. Not 100% certain but for a RCD and/or a circut breaker fitted that is for new vans or new re-wiring of your van etc. Your Lecky should know so be guided by him cheers Pete WhenI wrote this I forgot to mention that my cord was for my gen set that I had at the time.I now have a genny with 15amp outlet so no longer use it. I would never use an illegal 10a-15a adaptor for use with mains wiring. Ididn't realise people were going to use them via house wiring....my bad Pete
|
|
|
Post by kiwijim on Mar 5, 2011 4:09:45 GMT 10
Howdy Guys, After all this trouble with wiring, I suppose the cheapest way out of it, is to find an external power point around the house that has a circuit breaker on that line and simply change the power point to a 15amp plug. Have done this at home many years ago when I first acquired the Thomson, never had a problem except, the circuit breakers don't like an arc welder belting away for too long. kiwijim
|
|
|
Post by millard1399 on Mar 5, 2011 9:33:26 GMT 10
Gees, kiwijim, you'd need a bloody long lead to get you around Australia! I also had a dedicated 15A circuit put into the newly-built shed a couple of years ago. It has one power socket attached. I can run the van off it, or the welder, or any other lesser appliance. The problem is I can't do the same when the van goes somewhere else. When we stayed at Bathurst Showground last year, it was the only place that would take dogs. Luckily we were the only van there in July, but if it was summer or a major showground event, the place would be pretty well packed. I noticed that of the 12 power outlets, 10 were 15A and 2 were 10A sockets. What if you were the last van in and could only hook up to the 10A socket. What do you do? ------------------------------------------------- Another thought that popped into my mind during this discussion, is the approval of 15A extension leads. The wiring specifications changed a while back, so we now have to have 2.5mm wire for power sockets, and 2.0mm wire for lighting. Did the wiring in extension leads also have to be changed under those new rules? If I have a 15A lead that is 5 or more years old, is that lead still legal under the new wiring rules?? cheers, Al.
|
|
|
Post by millard1399 on Mar 5, 2011 19:42:12 GMT 10
Here's an item currently on ebay. 10A to 15A Adapter and Extension lead.. I can see on the label it's a Clipsal, but I've asked the seller for the model number, so I can check it out further on the Clipsal website (unless somebody here already knows about them). It has a 3 metre lead and 10A plug on the inlet side, and a 3 metre lead and 15A socket on the outlet side. That would be a bit limiting with only six metres total. It has a 10A overload and earth leakage in the box. I don't know what the rating of the box is for outdoor use (the IP rating), although the seller says it's a weatherproof design. The seller says this one is "in very good condition", and is up for auction with an opening bid of $99 or a buy-it-now price of $120. I wasn't aware of a Clipsal product, but it seems there are alternatives to the Amp*fibian product. cheers, Al.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2011 20:17:17 GMT 10
Al, that to me looks like something that I alluded too earlier - it looks like it has been made up from existing commercially available parts. It looks to be a neat and (most likely) safe way of doing it, BUT, I don't think its a commercially available product as it sits, which may have some implications as mentioned earlier. It may be a licensed electrician making them, in which case if he is certifying them, then I would suggest that there may be no issue - although as KiwiJim pointed out, this device may fall into the "declared item" category requiring an approval mark. Cheers, Doug
|
|
|
Post by millard1399 on Mar 5, 2011 20:35:11 GMT 10
G'day Doug, Yeah, I did notice the plugs were the manually fitted type rather than a factory moulded type. It does have the look of a "shed job" about it. I guess one "gotcha" with this type of appliance is that the Clipsal box might have the appropriate electrical approval on it, but the "modifications" with the 10A and 15A leads (assuming that's what's happened) don't qualify under the same approval number. You'd have to check these sorts of things out thoroughly to be confident that the WHOLE appliance has got the tick of approval and is included in the approval number. It's a bloody minefield out there, ay?!! cheers, Al.
|
|
|
Post by drylander on Mar 5, 2011 23:18:26 GMT 10
Like you Al when my shed was built I had it wired with a 15amp double for van or welding but as you say not much help when away from home. i was of the understanding that all van park outlets where 15 amp ?? Regarding the next cords for vans & m/homes they now have to be 1 peice you can't join them so many now carry a 30ft cord & a 20ft for the closer outlets. Sure is hard to keep legal with the stuff they keep updating Pete
|
|